kitchen sink leak and rotten wood

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Old 07-06-14, 03:34 PM
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kitchen sink leak and rotten wood

Hi, my kitchen sink is leaking. The water comes from the black board (it is black because it is completely rotten) in the photo. I don't know where to start. Any advice?
 
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Old 07-06-14, 04:06 PM
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It appears that the leak is above the sink. So either it's the faucet or it's the seal between the faucet & the sink or a combination of the two. Remove the faucet first & inspect the damage. The sink may have to be removed as well.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 05:24 PM
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Pulpo, thank you very much for your reply. How do I shutoff water? There is a blue valve at the bottom (please see the first photo) and two metallic this-might-be-a-valve things at the top (same photo). These things don't seem to be movable (but maybe I need to apply force?). Which one(s) do I need to turn to shut water off?

After I shut water off, do I understand it right, that, to remove a faucet, I need to unscrew the most top bolts under the sink (second photo) with a wrench and then unscrew the black plastic things above the bolts (I tried these things, they will unscrew easily)? Then use a knife to break the seal between the countertop and the faucet and lift the faucet up?
 
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Old 07-06-14, 05:57 PM
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Shut the water using the two chromed lever valves, under the sink. The blue valve may go to the dishwasher. I can't tell for sure from the picture. You'll need a faucet wrench to disconnect the lines from the sink, at the top of the pipe & remove the plastic retainers. Then remove the faucet the way you described with a putty knife.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 06:26 PM
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Pulpo, thank you! Here is what I got (please see the photos). It looks like the faucet is not connected to the sink at all, the sink is separate and the faucet is separate. And it leaked from above the place where the faucet connects to the flexible pipes. This means that I just need to buy a new faucet and install it, right? How do I know which type will fit? Will something like this work?
Glacier Bay | Single Handle Kitchen Faucet - Chrome | Home Depot Canada
 
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Old 07-06-14, 07:36 PM
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Wait a minute, not so fast! What about the wood that you said was rotted? You can't leave it there. I mean, you can but it's not a good idea. See what you can do to cut it out & replace it. As far as replacement parts go, take the old faucet with you to the store & I would replace the connectors too. Congratulations on some quick work.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 08:00 PM
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The rotted part turned out to be the countertop itself (it's all dark and rotted underneath in the area of the faucet, but looks fine from the top), so I guess there is nothing I can do about it... Although maybe there is a way to seal it with some kind of wood hardener or sealer to prevent mold?
Thank you very much for your advice, I feel I'm close to the finish line, although I will need to wait for the wood to dry before installing the new faucet.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 09:37 PM
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I know that it part of the counter top. I would try to find a way to chisel or cut it out. I wouldn't depend on any sealer.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 09:52 PM
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Do you mean I can chisel the bottom layer of the counter top and attach (glue?) plywood in it's place?
 
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Old 07-07-14, 05:16 AM
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It would be best to replace the countertop! It might be possible to chip out the rotted particle board and insert plywood but I wouldn't count on that being successful I suppose you could gain a little time by adding some plywood under the PB [if the plumbing will still fit] but replacing the top is best and will need to be done sooner or later. Is this a mobile home?

btw - welcome to the forums!
 
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Old 07-07-14, 07:34 AM
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Please I don't mean to be insulting or condescending but I think you need to call in a pro or someone who already has had some experience to show you what to do. Pulpos advise is spot on. But having someone there to walk through what to do and look for is going to teach you more than just fixing it. And that rotted countertop may be more than a novice can handle.
 
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Old 07-07-14, 08:05 AM
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That's usually true but he already did a fantastic job, in a short time, without knowing much at all. I think he might be able to handle the rest.
 
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Old 07-07-14, 10:41 AM
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Does rotted wood has to be removed because it is a health hazard or because it will eventually deteriorates? If it's the former, I think I will then replace the counter top. I thought they were expensive, but looks like, if I do it myself, it can be under $300 ($150 countertop
BELANGER LAMINATES INC | Kitchen Countertop, Profile 2300, Labrador Granite 3692-77, 25.5 inches x 96 inches | Home Depot Canada
$20 side splash
BELANGER LAMINATES INC | Return Splash Kit , Labrador Granite 3692-77 | Home Depot Canada
$50 jigsaw
BLACK & DECKER | Smart Select Jigsaw | Home Depot Canada
$40 installation kit
BELANGER LAMINATES INC | Installation Kit For Countertop | Home Depot Canada
), Will I need anything else?
>he already did a fantastic job, in a short time
Thank you! By the way, I'm "she".
 
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Old 07-07-14, 11:42 AM
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I think you should go the replacement route. Most counter tops are made of a solid core press type board. Once wet they don't repair very well. Plus now would be a good time to do it since you already have the faucet apart.

And I have to agree you are doing great in spite of my doubts.
 
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Old 07-07-14, 01:53 PM
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If you can remove and replace all the rotten wood there isn't a health hazard but if you leave rotten wood it could be an issue for those with respiratory problems. I can't imagine cutting out the bad and replacing it without damaging the formica on the top side of the counter ..... but maybe you have more patience than me!
 
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Old 07-09-14, 04:39 PM
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I'm trying to think it through step-by-step before deciding whether I can do it (replacing the countertop) and I got a couple of questions
(1) Is there any (reasonable) chance that I will have to remove the dishwasher in order to remove the countertop? I can see that the countertop is attached to supporting boards inside the other cabinets - these should be easy to remove because I can access them. However, if there is such thing in the back inside the dishwasher compartment then I would have to remove the dishwasher and that is beyond my skills.
(2) Is a jigsaw suitable for making holes (a large sink hole and small, around one inch in diameter faucet holes)? My understanding is that a jigsaw is an electric saw, so I can saw with it. However, in order to start sawing, I will need a hole first. Right? Which tool do I need to make that hole?
 
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Old 07-09-14, 05:38 PM
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You shouldn't have to remove the dishwasher but I think that you could handle it, if it were necessary. You would have to drill some holes to start the jig saw.
 
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Old 07-09-14, 10:40 PM
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Thank you, Pulpo! I decided to go for it. I will probably ask more questions later on after I start working on it.
 
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Old 07-10-14, 05:28 AM
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Most dishwasher can be pulled out a little ways without disconnecting them. As Pulpo stated, just drill a hole inside of the cutout so you can set your jig saw blade in. Sometimes it's beneficial to put masking tape along the cut - that helps minimize any chipping from the saw blade.
 
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Old 07-10-14, 10:42 AM
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marksr, thank you, it's a useful tip about masking tape. I will practice sawing on the old countertop first.

Is it safe to drill/saw the countertop when it is in it's usual place (on the top of the cabinets, with the sink and faucet removed)? I mean whether the vibrations from drilling/sawing can damage the dishwasher or the pipes? I think it should be safe, but just wanted to check what you think. Or do I need to do the sawing somewhere else and only then put the countertop in its place?
 
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Old 07-10-14, 02:13 PM
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I've only installed a few countertops [I'm a painter] but I've always cut the sink hole with the countertop installed, that way I know I'm putting the hole in the right place. I've seen the pros on various jobs do it either way, some cut the hole on site after the top is installed while others bring a top to the job that already has the hole cut. I would think any vibration would be minimal.
 
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Old 07-11-14, 11:37 AM
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Thank you, marksr, I will saw it after I install it then.

How do I remove the two rotted support boards (please see the photos)? I removed the wood screws, but the boards still hold strongly. I'm not sure what holds them but probably they are inserted into the sides of the cabinet and the top board is nailed to the bottom one.

And then how do I attach the replacements?
 
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Old 07-11-14, 01:37 PM
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You might try using a wide stiff putty knife as a pry bar to see if you can work it loose. There may be adhesive holding it, if it's nailed, the nails should become apparent as you pry it up.
 
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Old 07-11-14, 03:28 PM
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Thank you, that worked. Now, how do I prepare the area above the countertop for priming and painting? I'm trying to scrape off the remaining caulk and some paint comes off too. So there are some areas with exposed drywall, some areas with pealing paint and some still with caulk (please see the photos in the previous post).

Should I cut the paint that is peeling with scissors? then sand the edges to make them smooth with the exposed drywall?
 
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Old 07-12-14, 04:27 AM
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I'd cut the peeled paint/paper off with a utility knife. If the gypsum is exposed it should be coated with an oil base primer or Zinnser's Gardz prior to applying joint compound although if the area is small you might get by with skipping that step. Basically you'll scrape/sand as needed and then apply a thin coat of j/c and sand smooth when dry. I couldn't tell from the pic but if the wall is textured you'll want to texture the repair so it matches.
 
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Old 07-12-14, 12:31 PM
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There is one complication. The countertop that I ordered is a few mm thicker than the old one. So, the sink will sit higher. The undersink drain pipes are copper and nothing is adjustable there - everything is soldered. The sink was hardly reaching the pipe, so a few mm are essential. I can probably still change my order for the countertop, but those countertops with the same thickness as the old one are not good looking. Or I can call a plumber and have the soldered copper pipe replaced with an adjustable one. They said it will be around $200 and it has to be done after the sink is installed. Any advice?
 
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Old 07-12-14, 01:18 PM
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I do my own plumbing because I'm too cheap to pay a plumber but it's not a job I ever look forward to.
You might post that question in the plumbing section and get their input. I'm sure there is a way for you to do it and not have to pay the plumber.
 
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Old 07-12-14, 05:48 PM
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A few millimeters should not affect your plumbing. Just buy new supply lines. They come as long as 20". That should be more enough to reach you water pipes.
 
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Old 07-12-14, 08:40 PM
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Norm201, could you explain more, please. This is about the drain, not water pipes, so as far I understand there are no supply lines there. The are no tailpipes and all joints are soldered.
 
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Old 07-13-14, 02:43 AM
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OK, I thought you were talking about supply lines. But no matter. You drains are no different. You'll use a longer tail piece coming off the sink to fit into the trap that is already there. You'll use a slip joint and nut as shown here to connect to drain. Doesn't matter if the trap is soldered or not. You might want to remove all solder joints and go with traditional slip joint trap(s).

Or you can use slip joint coupling to extend your existing tail piece from the sink drain.
 
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Old 07-13-14, 03:01 AM
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Norm201, there is no tail piece in my drain. The drain doesn't have any joints with nuts. All joints are soldered. This is a highrise condo and the building was initially build as a rental and only later rental apartments were converted to condos. My guess is that they build it that way because there was no need for diy at rental apartments.
 
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Old 07-13-14, 03:10 AM
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In that case you'll want to switch over to slip joint drain and screw on water supply. I can't picture not having access to the drain in case of clogging. Its worth changing over now while you have the opportunity. You won't be sorry.

BTW...Your first pic on original post does show screwed on supply lines. These come in lengths up to 20 inches. But you can most likely use the same ones. It looks like you have enough slack that the new counter top won't make a difference.
 
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Old 07-13-14, 03:27 AM
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The water pipe that goes to the dishwasher is soldered too, so I think there is no way to disconnect the dishwasher without calling a plumber either. It shouldn't be like that, right? I don't need to change the dishwasher right now, but I'm thinking about asking the plumber to make a joint for the dishwasher too if it won't be too much extra. Any thoughts?

Also, another question. Since a plumber will be changing the pipes after I install the sink (he said that on the phone), does it mean I no longer need to align the sink with the existing drain? In other words, will he be able to align the drain pipes to the sink?
 
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Old 07-13-14, 03:39 AM
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In my opinion I would eliminate all solder joints that are not inside the wall. Be sure that the existing isolation valves are good or replace them now. The Dishwasher? Yes. What happens when the dishwasher breaks down or needs repair or replacement? You want to make it as easy as possible.

If you're having a plumber come over in any case ask him to make all connections "repair friendly". And yes you should try to align the sink as close as possible for the drain, but he can allow for quite a bit of adjustment is necessary.

As with any remodeling job its easy to have it expand beyond your original thoughts. But let me throw this out to you just as a thought. Maybe you can install an outlet plug behind the dishwasher and instead of hard wiring it, you can plug it in. Also have the plumber install a long flexible water supply line to the DW. That way you can pull it out easily without disturbing any thing else. And of course you want a separate isolation valve on the DW line.
 
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Old 07-15-14, 09:32 PM
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What tool do I need to cut 1 inch circular holes for the faucet? The holes are located close to the backsplash of the countertop, so jigsaw's base plate won't fit there.
 
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Old 07-15-14, 09:45 PM
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PS: I think I have found a picture of what I need
http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/Hom...cet/step07.jpg
but what is it called? I.e., what is this thing on the drill?
 
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Old 07-16-14, 04:18 AM
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It's called a 'hole saw' they come in various sizes. They have a pilot bit that protrudes thru the middle which gets the hole started and helps guide the saw cup when it gets contact with the substrate being drilled.
 
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Old 07-16-14, 07:16 PM
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I want to use a circular saw to cut the old countertop in two parts so that I can put it in my car to dispose of it. A friend will lend me the saw tomorrow. The problem I have is that I don't know what to secure the countertop to in order to make the cut. I'm in a highrise condo, so I can't do it outside. If I place the countertop on two tables standing apart, it will slide as I will use the saw on it, right? Do I need to use clamps? The tables are light, so they might slide with the countertop as well... Any ideas?
 
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Old 07-16-14, 07:34 PM
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Use a hand saw. Longer, harder, SAFER!
 
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Old 07-16-14, 10:04 PM
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That makes sense. It will probably take a while, but people used to cut trees with hand saws (or so they show in movies), so it is probably doable.
 
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