Can someone tell me why this plumbing is not up to code?

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  #1  
Old 08-11-14, 07:41 PM
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Can someone tell me why this plumbing is not up to code?

Had the city inspector in to approve our house for sale.

The kitchen sink was noted for a problem (it has not been worked on since we moved in. The previous city home inspector obviously then did not have an issue with it).

The comment on this installation was:
"Repair/replace waste and venting to code. Kitchen sink drain line needs to be installed per the plumbing code."

A completely inexperienced plumber here (but willing to try and learn). I've looked at diagrams and can't see what the issue is. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36321[/ATTACH]
 
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  #2  
Old 08-11-14, 09:33 PM
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I'm not certain (not a plumber) but I'm thinking that tee below the sink may be wrong. Should be a sanitary tee I think. IIRC they even make special ones with a baffle for disposers?

May be a problem with the way the trap is connected to the waste line also, really not sure of that.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 10:04 PM
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I'm not a plumber either but I think with that extra elbow into the wall it drains the water out of the trap from the siphon effect..... plus you do need a sanitary T.

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Old 08-11-14, 10:22 PM
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Just doing some looking and they do make baffled tees, but some people don't recommend them since it sort of decreases the overall space for drainage area for both disposal and sink.

Some recommend traps for both the disposal and sink then going into a wye at the wall, don't think you'll have enough room to do that really.

Have to wait for a plumber to answer to be sure.

I find it odd that up there a city inspector has to approve homes before sale? Never heard of that before.
 
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Old 08-12-14, 05:13 AM
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I suspect it has to do with the dishwasher line going to an air gap that exits the top of the sink. Is this sink in an island? Is there proper venting in the wall where the drain exits?
 
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Old 08-12-14, 05:45 AM
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I'm going to wait and see what lawrosa says.
The air gap is correct (7/8" discharge hose is a little long and has a dip in it, this hose should be shorter and try to keep straight with no dip).

I suspect the problem is the 90 degree elbow that is coming out of the wall and facing upwards.
Inspector may want waste arm coming straight out of wall.

Let's see what the expert says.
 
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Old 08-12-14, 06:37 AM
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I see nothing wrong from my eyes...........

The only thing is if that tee is baffled may be upside down.. That is for a center waste, and you need a side waste tee possibly. ( Edit Looking at the photo again that is the correct tee...)



[ATTACH=CONFIG]36333[/ATTACH]



But the inspector can just be busting chops here. Maybe He sees that straight tailpiece out of the disposal and thinks its wrong?? Its fine to be and I do it all the time to keep the drain higher..

Maybe if you put the drop ell back on the disposal you would be OK...




Best thing to do is call him and ask him to put it in laymans terms for you... Then post back...
 
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  #8  
Old 08-12-14, 07:45 AM
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straight tailpiece out of the disposal and thinks its wrong??
The high end disposals, such as ISE Evolution Series, come complete (and call for), either a standard elbow or straight discharge. I doubt if ISE would include these parts if it wasn't standard practice.
If it's not the baffle tee, it's puzzling what the inspector is looking at.
Lawrosa has the answer, have them tell you specifically. My only guess would be trap is too high
 
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Old 08-12-14, 08:20 AM
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My only guess would be trap is too high
Probably right. After further review it looks like it can be construed as an s trap.

I would say remove the ells at the wall, drop the trap, and install straight arm to wall..

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Old 08-12-14, 08:27 AM
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I have to ask...
Mike, how can you tell thats the right kind of tee from the pic? Some sort of marking? It doesn't have the sort of 'sweep" I would expect for a sanitary tee.

And just noticed at the connection to the sink strainer...is that a metal nut just jammed up to a plastic nut? If not...why is so much white PVC showing above it?

Also...does the air gap preclude the needed high loop in the dishwasher drain? Don't have them here, so never dealt with it.
 
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Old 08-12-14, 08:32 AM
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Oops...nevermind about the tee. I see by comparing the orientation of the nuts and your drawing what you mean.
 
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Old 08-12-14, 08:51 AM
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why is so much white PVC showing above it?
That's Teflon tape.

does the air gap preclude the needed high loop in the dishwasher drain?
Yes. The loop served to provide an "air gap". But the true air gap is much more efficient.

Some of the newer dishwashers have a built in gap at the side of the unit. But the sink top gap is required.

Just thought I'd hop in there Mike.
 
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Old 08-12-14, 08:55 AM
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Just thought I'd hop in there Mike.
No proplem.. We need another plumber on this forum to keep me in check... he he..

Not sure your exp handyone....
 
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Old 08-12-14, 10:01 AM
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Cool.
Yes, I don't think I was clear. Gunguy asked:

does the air gap preclude the needed high loop in the dishwasher drain?
My answer was yes.

The dishwasher drain hose can be connected directly to disposal or cut (at the 5/8" mark) and connected to a branch tailpiece. Either one of these requires a high loop.

If connected to an air gap, no loop is required. The air gap serves as the loop, only better, because air is introduced.
 
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Old 08-12-14, 10:38 AM
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Oops Mike,
I thought you were asking about my explanation. I realized you may have meant my experience.

Strictly finish plumbing. I remodel kitchens and do all reconnects and appliance installs.

The most I like to do in the walls are maybe these:
Replacing a tee, higher/lower.
Moving a gas line (short distance) to accommodate new range, wall oven, etc.
Extend supply/waste lines (short distance)
Ice Maker box

Any serious plumbing I will call on my plumber.
 
  #16  
Old 08-12-14, 11:37 PM
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Thanks everyone for your replies.

I had a plumber out today for a separate issue (fixing a hot water heater installation that yet another city inspector had an issue with), and had him peak under the sink. He wasn't really sure either but thought it could possibly be the 90 degree turn at the main waste entry. The pipe going away from the trap toward the wall is actually a little bit longer than the picture looks (same length as the pipe above it), but since a few have pointed that out so far, that's the leading possibility.

I put a call into that inspector, and like any good city inspector, he hasn't returned my call yet. I will follow back up here when I hear back from him.

As an aside, yes, in my city you are required to do a home inspection prior to sale. I got dinged on the plumbing under the sink, the hot water heater installation (which will be fixed by the installers free of charge), not having my address numbers 4" tall on my one car garage that is off the alley, not having caulking around the bottom of one of the toilets where it meets the floor (again, something that hasn't been touched since we moved in), and, believe it or not, paint chipping on one of the bedroom ceilings. The last was something I was going to do anyway, but it was a little annoying to get the notice about it. The inspection was free, but the permit to be able to sell the house is then $250, so all in all it's a very 'wonderful' process....
 
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Old 08-13-14, 06:56 AM
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Jeez...not that it was in the the cards anyway...but remind me to cross Minneapolis off my possible future places to live in my next life.

Btw...many people do not caulk the base of toilets. Except for esthetics, there's no reason for it. If you do do it, always leave a several inch gap at the back in case of wax ring failure.

Chipping sealing paint? Unless it's do to a water leak, big deal! Crazy....
 
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Old 08-13-14, 07:02 AM
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Many advocate NOT caulking the base of the toilet so you can see if it leaks. As Vic said, at least leave a gap at the back if you do caulk.
 
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Old 08-13-14, 08:51 AM
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Btw...many people do not caulk the base of toilets. Except for esthetics, there's no reason for it. If you do do it, always leave a several inch gap at the back in case of wax ring failure.
Its actually code to seal the base of the toilet with a waterproof seal...
 
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Old 08-13-14, 09:08 AM
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Well I think I could (maybe) find an argument for the other things that have to with health and/or safety – but a loose paint chips on the ceiling? Or have you have you failed to tell us a chip is 6 feet wide and weighs 30 lbs. lol

I just don’t understand why loose paint chips would not just be something of interest between the buyer and the seller? Sounds like government out of control. But as they say “You can’t fight city hall”. But I would not be able to contain my curiosity and would probably ask the inspector (in a nice way, lol) why in the world he is interested in loose paint chips? There must be some argument for safety: maybe kids eating fallen chips or something like that?

Glad I had this conversation with myself; I think I just convinced myself that it’s probably a blanket safety issue to protect kids (dogs are too smart to eat paint chips).

p.s. good luck on the house sale.
 
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Old 08-13-14, 09:37 AM
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Except for esthetics, there's no reason for it.
It was early when I said that...and I was wrong! I did know that it was required. I guess there are disputes as to why, but then codes don't explain that part do they?

Best reasoning I saw was to eliminate a place for "fluids" (of all types) to get under the toilet and cause smelly unsanitary conditions.
 
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Old 08-13-14, 09:44 AM
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I don't think it's code everywhere and by that I mean not code in a lot of places. My parents are in a Minneapolis suburb and to my knowledge they do not have to do so.
 
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Old 08-13-14, 11:48 AM
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I live in a condo apartment with people underneath my unit. When I installed my toilet I decided to caulk all around the toilet. My thinking was that there is probably a much higher probability and frequency that my toilet will overflow someday then my wax ring leaking. So I was more concerned about keeping the water from flowing underneath the toilet into the apartment below, then not allowing it to flow out from underneath if my wax ring someday leaks.

Whether right or wrong, that was my thinking anyways.
 
  #24  
Old 09-21-14, 12:32 PM
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Just an update. Not surprisingly perhaps, the inspector never returned my calls. I did have the piping redone because we put in new countertops/sink. The installer straightened out the angle to the main waste line. We also removed the air gap and went with a high loop.

Last week, the home inspector came back out and passed the entire house. So I do believe it was the the angle into the main waste.

Thanks everyone for your help.
 
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