Bath tub surround and tub plumbing

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  #1  
Old 02-09-15, 10:23 AM
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Bath tub surround and tub plumbing

Not shore if this is the right place if not please move, thanks

I'm gutting my main bath room, the only thing I'm leaving is the newer tile floor and Kohler cast iron tub. I was thinking of putting in roxal sound proofing batts all around the tub then cement board. I saw a lot of stuff on this but everybody has there own way to do it.

Should I put plastic up then put in the cb, yes no and how fare up the wall?

So I have to use the orange fiber glass stuff on all the joints?

So I need to use come kind of printable water sealer over all the cb?

What I see it seems you're building a dam pool and no water will leak out. I think that is crazy over kill but I have no idea. I want to do it right the first time and not have to worry about it again.

I was going to get the delt cassidy sets for the bathroom at a plumbling supply place. No big box store!! Dose anybody know can you connect to the valve and all the faucets with say pex plumbing no sweating. I have never tried it nor have the tools for it.

thanks
 
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Old 02-09-15, 11:14 AM
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Did you, or do you have a shower in the tub area presently? Does the tub have a lip on three sides? Is it sitting against studs? Roxul Safe 'n Sound is an excellent insulation material. Although it required no vapor barrier, you should protect your studs and other wood beneath the CBU with a vapor barrier attached to the studs. Bring your vapor barrier into the tub area slightly past the lip of the tub. Start your CBU on top of the lip of the tub so it will be on the same plane as the studs without having to shim them all out. Your tile will jump the gap from the cbu to just above the tub flat so no worries there. It will keep things from wicking up should water get under it. You can cut your plastic just before tiling, but keep it over the lip of the tub.

I have no idea what delt cassidy is, so you may have to explain it to me. PEX is a great plumbing method for houses. The compression tool will cost about $60 but money well spent.
 
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Old 02-09-15, 02:27 PM
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Hard to understand what you even asking from all the miss spellings and no pictures.
What's printable water sealer?
There is no need for a vapor barrier behind tile board.
It's water proofed on the face of it before tiling with a product like Red Guard or Hydro Ban.
Tile board and grout are not waterproof, why let the water leak in and run down behind it?
Why the insulation? Outside wall, sound proofing?
 
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Old 02-10-15, 12:32 PM
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Sorry for the spelling, I'm using my phone.

Yes the tub/ shower, is in place. No idea yet, My plan it to gut the bathroom in two weeks. I'm hoping it dose have a lip and is bolted to the wall with no water damage, but I will see.

So both of you are saying something different here. I want to use the Roxul Safe 'n Sound. the wall it opened so why not put it in. The tub/shower is on an interior wall.

Will it hart to put the plastic in and do the water proofing, (Red Guard) over the CB? Doing this means the wall will not breath I would figure, so wouldn't that be a bad thing?

So using the red guard, do I still have to use mortar on the joints and the fiber tap?

The delt cassidy is just the style my wife picked out, The fittings and valves area all the same I would figure. Well I guess my real question I should ask is, what fittings should I go with? I'm going to leave the 1/2" copper pipe there and use pex for the the rest. I was thing of using the sherk bit once, I'm not shore if that's a good idea to use in a wall that I can't get to if they fail. The tool and fittings you're talking about are the one's that goes over the pex and you clamp it down by that clamp that was that little nip on it? But I do not think that works with copper and I can't sweat the pipes together.
 
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Old 02-10-15, 01:03 PM
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You can use Roxul Safe n Sound without a vapor barrier. If you want to coat the walls with Redgard, that will be a good vapor barrier. You should still tape and coat the seams and corners as well as any nooks you build it (Ah, hadn't thought of that, yet) The Roxul will keep sound transmissions to a minimum. Ah, DeltA Cassidy! Nice. A little pricey for me, but nice. Shark bites are fine for coupling copper to pex, then you can crimp the remainder if you want. I don't use the nib type rings. Use the solid black ones.
 
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Old 02-10-15, 03:18 PM
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The two schools are - run a vapor barrier like 6 mil plastic, or 15# felt paper behind the cement board or use a product like Redgard or Hydro Ban. Either method works, and you will get strong arguments either way, but neither is wrong. Both require you to mud and tape the corners and any seams between the boards. Use the 1/2" cement board of your liking, one is not better than the other.

I would prefer the shark bite is accessible in some way, or you sweat an adapter (copper to pex) for a good connection. I have seen shark bites that have failed, although, the fail is usually more immediate than over time.
 
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Old 02-10-15, 03:44 PM
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Word of caution. Sharkbites are now coming in Polybuthlene to PEX. Gray on one end and tan on the other. They will not work on PEX to PEX or Copper to PEX. If you force it, it will fail. Just ask my helper.
 
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Old 02-10-15, 03:55 PM
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Thanks Larry, I did not know of the new shark bites configured for different style pipes. Fortunately, I still am a sweat and flux guy who has only dabbled with sharkbites. I don't trust them to be honest, they worry me to death. And the ones that failed were on permitted jobs where Licensed plumbers were called in. I do own a half dozen sharkbite plug units to stop off the cut ends of a pipe while I configure the rough in for a shower supply. Beats the heck out of soldering a cap on the end of the stub outs only to cut them off an hour later.
 
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Old 02-12-15, 10:52 AM
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Okay got it. Yes I'm using 1/2" cb, same stuff I used on my kitchen floor this past summer.

the delt cassidy is but not as bad as some other brands my wife was looking at, like calif. brass and so on. On a side note are the cartridges plastic like Moen or are they ceramic?

See that's what I'm not liking with sharkbites.

So do they make any over ways to connect to copper with out sweaty on the fittings? I know they have those crush fitting that you need the tool, that is like a 1000 or so. Maybe I could rent it.

One another note, I know the Valve has 3/4" ends. My plumbing in my house is only 1/2". I know it's not a good idea to go from 1/2" to 3/4" but I have no choice, will I run into problems with water flow and so on or know? I have town water and have a psi reducer. I have it set to 65/75psi. streets at 95 to 115.
and will this make problems for me in the future when I want to do my master bath shower with all those body jets?
 
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Old 02-12-15, 01:15 PM
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One story on sharkbites isn't total history, although most any connection will fail. I have sharkbites on a jobsite that is over 5 years old and still going strong. My helper tried to force the PB end of the sharkbite on the copper and punched all the plastic out the other end. Not the fitting's fault, obviously. Your valve will have 1/2" fittings, unless it is an extremely high volume unit, in which case it won't be a good idea to run off 1/2" pipe. I think you will find they are 1/2".

Your PRV should be set at about 60 lbs, so you are good. It is volume, not pressure that will determine how many units you can run at a time. 1/2" is woefully small for an entire house. Why is it only 1/2"? Is it necked down at the entrance and water heater?

From their website: "Designed for use with standard 1/2" or 3/4" U.S. plumbing connections".
 
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Old 02-12-15, 01:34 PM
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Your future master bath renovation with "all those body jets" will be an issue if you are running off a standard water heater. You need a tankless unit to keep up with the demands of a shower with multiple units and/or body sprays. You will run out of hot water way before you desire unless you have an unlimited supply as provided with a tankless unit.
 
  #12  
Old 02-13-15, 07:55 AM
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Well I know all fitting fail. I do have a sharkbite in my basement that is old. No idea how old, but I have not had any problems with it.

It comes in as a 3/4" line, then T's off to the boiler that line is a 1/2", the 3/4" line goes width wise to the back of the house, and feeds the kitchen and washing machine. then goes about 3' and goes down to a 1/2" and heads to the three bathrooms upstairs. IT's a slit level.

The lines coming off my IDWT and boiler are 3/4" then go right down to 1/2" about 1' past the boiler.

Know idea why they only used 1/2" in the house, the house was built in 1961 though.

I going to the store tomorrow to get all the spec on all the delt stuff and look it over and order. So I will see. That whole series says it saves water and so on so I would think then it would be 1/2" lines.

I do have 35gl IDWT, When it calls, the boiler heats it up fast. Will it work with what I have?

On the pex lines, So you have to insulate them like copper lines?
 
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Old 02-13-15, 09:43 AM
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Your Delta Cassidy trim kit will take a Delta Universal Rough-in kit which is what you hook your plumbing up to. You will want to get the Universal Rough-in designed for pex. It comes with the little barbs for crimping. R10000-PX Delta MultiChoice® Universal Tub and Shower Valve Body : Bath Products : Delta Faucet

These Universal Rough-ins are rated at a max. flow rate of between 7.4 - 8.6 GPM depending on whether you have integral shut offs or not. Actual flow is determined at the fixture - i.e. the Cassidy Shower head is rated at 2 to 2.5 GPM (depending on cartridge). Fully loaded up to 7.4 GPM lets say, that would give you a roughly 5 minute shower before you ran out of hot water (based on 35 gallon tank).
 
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Old 03-05-15, 09:33 AM
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Okay, well I gutted half the bathroom last night and was not happy what I saw.

in 2003 somebody put green board around the tub and glued the tiles on. So lots of mold and wet drywall We have not used the tub/shower in 7 months.

So anyway. have more question now.

The tub dose have a lip on all three sides. Now both the front and back of the tub are lined up with the 2x4 studs so I'll just install the cement board right to the top of the lip. Now for the side, somebody thought it would be a good idea to notch out the 2x4 and put the tub in the wall. So now the lip for the tub is in the wall by about 1/2". So how do I finish this wall now? do I just run the cement board to about 1/4 above the tub. before I do that should I install the plastic on the back for an extra from the tub to around the cut studs and all the way to the ceiling? I'm is going to use the (Red Guard) on all the cement board I install around the tub.

Two things I know people will ask. IT's not a load baring wall at wall.
They put the tub in, then they poured 1" thick on concrete over the bathroom floor and tiled on it. I'm not removing all that concrete so I can't move the tub over to take it out of the wall.

next, the drain dose not hold water anymore plus the nob on the tub looks nasty, I'm going to change it all. All I need is that plate with a new float looking thing on a chain that goes down the over flow pipe, right? There trying to sell be the whole pipe assembly for it. there no way to change all that unless I pull the tub. plus it all looks fine and it is lot leaking anywhere.

I'm looking over the plumbing tonight to see how all that looks and I may have questions tomorrow.

thanks
 
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Old 03-05-15, 09:49 AM
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I'm sure they recessed the tub in lieu of installing a ledger board for the tub to rest on. Good news being, that it worked with greenboard and tile before, it will work with cement board and tile in the rebuild.

You can buy the drain overflow assembly as a stand alone item. I sometimes by a new visible handle and re-attach the stopper and linkage from the old unit as no one will ever see what is inside the pipe. You do not need to purchase a new drain. First however, snake out the drain from the overflow. May be clogged with hair and therefore not sealing causing the water to drain.

Send us some pictures, we will help walk you through. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...rt-images.html
 
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Old 03-05-15, 01:52 PM
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Additionally, just bring your cbu to the top of where the lip is on the wall side, too. Disregard the brain fart of the installer. Leave the same gap all around to allow your tile to cover the gap. No wicking of water that way.
 
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Old 03-06-15, 04:49 AM
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here are the pictures I took last night.

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As you can see there is nothing under the tub, they just laid it down on the sub floor.

you can see the cut studs and so on.

plus the dam stacks in the way, for the hand shower I want to put in.

As for the drain, It's stuck it would not move at all. I turned one screw a half a turn and it sheered off the two for the plate to take off. the whole plunger, is stuck in there. As you can see in the picture I can't move it anymore out then that. Is there a trick to get it out? I would like to get it out so I can stake the line. I know I can just get a new plunger and parts to add a new one. Will wd40 work if I spray it down there? I'm thinking it might be rusted over or something.
 
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Old 03-06-15, 05:37 AM
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If the drain stopper moves a little up and down at all, it will eventually come out. Just keep wiggling and lifting as straight up as you can. They are usually made of brass so that they do not corrode. Must be hung up on a burr from the downspout tube or something.

I think that stud is a perfect place to mount your hand held shower slide bar. You may have to do some fancy plumbing to locate the drop elbow for it so that the main handle or diverter is not going to interfere with it. Give us a link to the plumbing you plan on putting in.
 
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Old 03-06-15, 05:06 PM
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Well I was trying to move it around for 1/2 hour just now, and it finally sheared off just above the pine I can still grab it but it dose not move at all. Could it a that other one that goes down with like a bar and turns a flap or something?

As for the parts I'm going to use,
delta universal valve with cold and hot with the flow presser, i think it's called. it's #delr1000-unws, delt17t497-ss

then the diverter valve 3 port three to six functions, #delr11000,

hand shower, no bar, del59433

Yes for the stud to be there I can mount the holder for the handled shower, like they had it. You can see it in the picture. I have to cut it off. The plumbing will be tight. plus I have to raise up the shower head, its way to low. it's at like 5'-6" off the the tub. I'm going to move it to come out at 7'.
 
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Old 03-06-15, 05:53 PM
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Grrrrrrr. I hate when that happens. Do you have access from behind? It would involve loosening the nut from the base of the overflow stack, releasing that joint, separating the overflow from the tub and lifting it our to remove the stuck stopper.

As far as the rough-ins for the new plumbing, do a story board of all the exact measurements of your tile and where you want the elements to be. Then you need to install to meet your story board. That way your stub out for the hand held hits at a grout line, your rough-in for the valve and the diverter hit at a grout line and the tub spout is appropriately centered so things look balanced.

Here is a before and after of a shower I did this past December using the exact same rough-ins as you are planning on using. Note the placement of the elements and the final layout of the tile so that everything worked out nicely. And the convenient stud right there for attachment of the hand held shower arm.

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Old 03-25-15, 12:35 PM
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thanks for the pictures and info. My bathroom was put on hold, wife's tranny blow. anyway i'm picking up the parts tonight i order weeks ago, and going to do all the rough in for the shower/tub this weekend.

No I can't there is not a lot of room to work and take the pipes out. I poured water full bore down the over flow and it took it all. So I was talking to store and I'm thinking of going with those push drains. you just push on them and they open and close, and get a plate for the over flow to make it look good.

The bathroom may be on hold again after this weekend. I took down the wall where the sink was. I have a split and right in the middle of the bathroom wall is the roof over the kitchen, it was soaked. So I have a leak. Looks like no dam flashing or anything under the siding so with all the snow sitting on the roof, it leaked in right were the roof and siding meet
 
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Old 04-02-15, 06:11 AM
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okay I did the plumbing but I have a question. The 3/6 diverting valve said cap the right side if not using, they call it #6. The valve inside looked all the same. I capped the left side. So I connected everything like this.
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is that wrong or dose it matter what port you come out of?
 
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Old 04-02-15, 06:30 AM
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Stop!

You cap off the right port because the 3 function cartridge only uses the other ports. The valve rough in itself is universal so it works for both 3 or 6. The cartridge also only goes in one way so you can not just reverse it. That is why the one shown in my picture is configured the way it is. I switched the hand held to top port so I could do what you want to do and have the hand held on the right. Bite the bullet and redo NOW before you close everything up and find out it won't work.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 09:37 AM
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Dam it. I newbie mistake, I guess. Good think I asked because that would of s*** if it did not work after I tiled everything. The problems was I do not have the cartridges, they just had the rough ins for me. If I had the cartridge I would of realized I could not do that or not.

So I know, the right port is for what, if I go into another rough in valve, right?

thanks
 
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Old 04-02-15, 10:32 AM
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So I know, the right port is for what
The right port is for the addition of another shower head or unit such as body sprays. It is for use with a 6 function diverter (different cartridge) that allows you to use any one of 3 shower heads independently, or any combination of 2 shower heads at the same time.

Yours is a 3 function diverter where you can use either stationary or handheld independent, or both at the same time.
 
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Old 07-20-15, 08:14 AM
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Hey Guys, well it's been to long. finally working on the bathroom. full gut job, walls are all air sealed and new insulation plus green board is up. Plumbing is fixed and I framed out the shelf in the shower/tub last night and added the sound proofing around the tub.

my question, I just want to make shore before I do this. The cb, because of the mess up with the tub being into the 2x4 studs. I was going to leave 1/2" gap from the cb to the tub face/top then fill it with 50 year/ life time silicone then use red guard over the cb and the silicone then tile and grout. Is that the right way to do it? I know I do not want the cb resting on the tub face because the cb can suck up the water and I could have mold in the wall then.
 
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Old 07-20-15, 08:27 AM
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Forget wasting all that silicone in the gap, not necessary. I would make sure the cement board floats off the deck say 1/4" and then bridge the gap with tile leaving 1/16" to 1/8" (max) to the tub that you then caulk in. The redgard will not stick to the silicone. The airgap to the tile flange on the tub means nothing and can remain a void.
 
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Old 07-20-15, 12:20 PM
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Additional caution. Tape off and cardboard your tub if you are using Redgard. It is unforgiving.
 
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Old 07-27-15, 07:35 AM
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Okay, guys,

yes, I know, plan on taping and over the whole tub before I use the stuff.

thank you,
 
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Old 07-28-15, 09:44 AM
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IS this the stuff I use on all the joints Schluter Systems 5-in x 16-ft 5-in Waterproofing Strip, and apple it with the red guard? So I paint the joints only put the strips on the joints let it dry? then paint the two coats over the whole wall?
 
  #31  
Old 08-18-15, 12:02 PM
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ok guys I just bought the Redgard. What fiber tape works the best with the Redgard and sealing the joints? dose it matter?
 
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Old 08-23-15, 05:50 PM
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The redgard is on. Can I use acryl pro over the redgard? I have used the acryl pro to mount tiles to the walls before and the stuffs great. But not shore if u can us it over the redgard. Dose anybody know or have used it?
 
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Old 08-23-15, 05:59 PM
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Are you speaking of the premixed stuff??? No. Mix modified thinset yourself from dry.
 
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Old 08-24-15, 06:50 AM
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Yes acryl pro is a pre mix, okay. so polymer modified same stuff i used on my kitchen floor.
 
  #35  
Old 09-01-15, 04:55 AM
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Well I have a little problems with my pipe for the hand held shower. IT's out to fair. Need some options.
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my thought was to cut the threads. the part only goes back about 1/2 so if I cut half of it off it would go all the way back I would think.
 
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Old 09-01-15, 07:02 AM
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How far back is the rough in for the pipe from the finished edge of the wall. I have used two male copper threaded ends and made a custom sized nipple. On the last two installed I had to use one male threaded and one street male threaded with some cut off to get it small enough. Hope you are good with a torch and solder. Just cutting some thread off may not work as the threads are tapered and will only go in so far anyway..
 
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Old 09-01-15, 08:28 AM
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I believe the fitting starts right at the cb, so u have the neck just past the tile edge then the threads.

ok i see.

i checked my two valves with all the trim and they fit fine this was the only problem.
 
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Old 10-30-15, 11:08 AM
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I have a quick questions. On the redgard, my other bathroom is on grade with a concrete floor that I'm going to tile. But there is a moisture problem in there. Plan was to use the redgard on the floor first before I tile. I know the redgard is a moisture barrier so not shore if that is the right thing to use on the floor?

On the block walls, my plan is to use drylock or should I use redgard also?

The block wall is about 4' high, then wood framing. No insulation in the wall right now at all.
 
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Old 10-31-15, 04:18 AM
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You are going to build a preslope and sloped base anyway, so redgard on the concrete is not a problem, although it is not what will catch your water and turn it to the drain. The sloped floor and pvc liner will do that job for you.

What is your plan on tiling the walls? How will you transition from the block to the wood? Will you be building a wall external of this with cbu on top? I would not use drylock at all, as it is not a good substitute for stopping water infiltration from the outside. Only proper drainage and landscaping with possible external wall waterproofing will do that.
 
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Old 12-01-15, 01:25 PM
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Sorry I should of gave more details. This is a half bath. The floor is a concrete slab on grade on one wall, but the other wall has about two feet of back fill on the other wall. The walls are 4" block for 4 feet high then a 2x4 stud wall with 2x4 stud wall on the front of the block. There is no insulation in there so in the winter my pipes freeze in there.

It's damp in there do to no insulation and no vapor barrier I would think. So for some extra. I was thinking use the redgard on the floor and use what on the block before I insulate.
 
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