Hot water coming through cold taps

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Old 02-10-15, 03:18 PM
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Hot water coming through cold taps

we live in a condo with 2 bathrooms.

brief backstory:

in the past couple years we were frequently facing the issue of no HOT water, especially during the winter seasons when we needed it the most. HERE is how the water heater looked like during this time. A plumber said the supply lines (shown in the picture) are crossed and fixed it & replaced the supply lines, HERE is how it looked like after he was done.

Not much changed as we still faced the issue with no HOT water, eventually the landlord had some workers over who noticed the bottom of the water heater was not getting warm. So a new water heater was installed just a week ago.

Hot water is running just fine now except it is running even on the COLD tap. It does not happen 100% of the time, but when we use the bathroom the most.

For example I brushed my teeth this morning in the bathroom sink and the water was hot/warm through 5-7 minutes on the cold side. HERE is a picture of the faucet. HERE is a picture of the shower in that very same bathroom.

Most importantly it happens during showers too, HERE is how the shower faucet/handle looks like in the other bathroom (pay no attention to the backplate position, its loose, the right half is the cold side). And HERE is the sink in this bathroom.

It also happens in the kitchen sink as well, which also has 1 handle to switch temperatures. We've called the landlord over however at that moment cold water was coming just fine so nothing was done.

Does it usually take 10 or so minutes for the cold water to kick in or is there a problem somewhere? As you noticed all the faucets in the home are 1 handle except for one of the bathroom sinks, which has 2 handles.
 
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Old 02-10-15, 03:45 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

It is normal to get hot water from the cold taps of fixtures near the water heater. As the water heats up the hot water is forced back out of the cold line due to expansion.

Most new installations have a pressure tank in the water line to stop that from happening.
 
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Old 02-10-15, 04:27 PM
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So this process can take up to 10 minutes?

what if I told you sometimes i turn on the faucet and the water is initially cold but later turns hot/warm. Does the same theory apply? I called a plumbing company and they said it may be a mixing valve (I think they said valve).
 
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Old 02-10-15, 04:29 PM
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It could be a mixing valve. Can you post a wide angle shot of the water heater and the plumbing above it ?
 
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Old 02-10-15, 04:46 PM
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HERE is a current snapshot from the top of the water heater. on the right side (not seen in the photo) is a stacked washer/dryer unit.

Also, where is the mixing valve located? Behind the shower knobs? Is there more than one?
 
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Old 02-10-15, 04:53 PM
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I don't see any type of valve in your picture. It would look something like in the picture below.
A Tee like device with three lines connected to it.

Name:  tempering_valves.jpg
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Old 02-10-15, 05:16 PM
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Okay. Its supposed to be located near the water heater? You're right i don't see anything there either.

I thought they were behind the shower faucets
 
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Old 02-10-15, 06:52 PM
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Many shower valves have an anti-scald valve as part of its design. The valve would only affect that shower. The regular faucets should still get full hot water.
 
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Old 02-10-15, 11:11 PM
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Ok. The faucets do get hot water however its when I run the cold water I get it.

So theres no problem thats obvious?
 
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Old 02-13-15, 03:59 AM
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We had a plumber over and he found no glaring issue after some investigating. However he said he would start with the two mixet shower valves that we have as the culprits. Its a good chunk of change to have them both replaced so is there anyway to single one out and see which valve out of the 2 it is?
 
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Old 02-13-15, 11:02 PM
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Each shower uses it's own antiscald valve. Most are adjustable and have a replaceable cartridge.
 
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Old 02-14-15, 03:20 AM
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What is an anti-scald valve? Just the shower valve? Because i'm familiar with the cartridge on the mixet valves (I did some googling/youtubing), and the plumber never mentioned anything about 'anti-scald' from what I remember.

I just brushed my teeth and took an uncomfortably warm shower (today was 87 degrees). I noticed when i was at the bathroom sink, the water was initially cold, I later moved the knob to the middle for some warm water. Then put it back to cold - and there was no cold water, i let it run for like 10 minutes and nothing.

then i jumped into the shower and had the knob at the upper right position, which should be coldest and the water was warm and hot throughout the entire shower. Very bizzare. Whenever i want to change the temperature during the shower it either wont make much of a difference or just change dramatically to hot. Also the proportion of cold/hot water in the 360 degree rotation is like 3:1 in favor of the hot. The cold water (when it is coming) is generally only cool about the top right portion of the knob. Do these symptoms point at the cartridge being the culprit or is it too vague of a description?

So one bad shower cartridge can only affect the bathroom sink and shower in that very same bathroom? Not other faucets in the home?

I appreciate any advice to help narrow this issue as much as possible so I can spend my money wisely
 
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Old 02-14-15, 08:15 AM
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You are renting, you shouldn't be spending any money on repairs.
Anyway, your fixtures don't look modern and probably don't have anti-scalding adjustments.

You almost certainly have a mixing valve problem. The valve is part of the shower valves, could be a kitchen faucet, but the best place to start is the showers.

If these valves are installed incorrectly or fail, they can force water back into the lines, overpowering the cold.
 
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Old 02-14-15, 02:02 PM
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By mixing valve, you mean cartridges right?

The landlord said it happens in her home as well and when she was here with the workers they found nothing wrong. They simply said to adjust the temperature. And the water was cold then. I then suggested i pay half. I was thinking of making a video using a thermometer for proof.

Then my landlord said if it is indeed the shower valves she will then pay half. How do i get out of paying half then? It is a water issue so you are right the landlord should be paying but unfortunately she does not want to spend money on pinpointing the problem
 
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Old 02-14-15, 05:09 PM
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I mean cartridge or valve body. The entire valve body may need changed, which means tearing into walls.
It is no coincidence you had a plumber there and the first suspect was shower valve.

I don't know the law on landlords. As far as I know, you can request an issue be addressed.... If no response or action within a reasonable time, you can have work performed and send them the bill.

Not sure who to check with. I would start with city or HUD.

Edit: Not send them the bill, but deduct it from your rent with or without their approval. Again you need to confirm this locally.
 

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Old 02-15-15, 09:09 AM
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You are getting a cross over of the hot to the cold somewhere and I also suspect that it is one of the shower valves. I would assume as a rental, that an anti-scald valve would need to be installed. For demonstration purposes look at the short video attached to see one example of what might be going on. This is a repair of a shower valve, but make note in the beginning, he mentions that washing machine valves are also suspect to failure and a cross over. I also suspect this is why your hot water lines were crossed in the initial picture. Someones cheap fix to the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CiU_3Q-yVY
 
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Old 02-15-15, 02:11 PM
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So an anti scald valve prevents water from turning hot dramatically or prevents cross over altogether? Does this replace the mixing valve/cartridge or is it a seperate part?

And is it cheaper to have installed compared to the $150 for the cartridge replacement (which we are doing anyway)

You said it could be ONE of the shower valves - but we are experiencing the issue in both bathrooms. Does that mean it has to be both?

The washing machines were checked by the last plumber and he said it was good and he felt the lines above the water heater and said the hot was heating up just fine. So they dont need to be crossed again do they?
 
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Old 02-15-15, 03:12 PM
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Send us a picture of the washing machine cut off valves. Is it a one handle or two handle?

If you watched the video, you would note that the shower unit he had was of a particular configuration that the anti-scald valve was separate from the actual cartridge. I can not tell as I don't recognize the shower units you have. In the video, the anti-scald functions to prevent you from getting burned if someone flushes the toilet while you are in the shower. The valve buffers the change in pressure so that the temperature coming out of the shower does not change.

Is is also possible to remove the handle and trim plates to show us the rough in for the showers that we can determine who made them?
 
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Old 02-15-15, 05:17 PM
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When i get home i will try and get a picture of the valves on the washer, which im assuming are located behind the washer?

And i have never taken the trim apart before, even though theres a screw right in the middle of the turning knob as you see in the pics, after i remove that how much is left to remove from there?Do i have to shut off the water?
 
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Old 02-16-15, 07:02 AM
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After quite a bit of searching on google images, I have identified your shower valves and trim kit as "Mixet". Here is a link to a solution to the mixing problem you currently have. It stays that the seats wear out over time due to hard water and the cartridges need to be changed out.

Nomix Inc. | Hot and Cold Water Mixing Problems

Here is a google search for you to read up on additional information

https://www.google.com/search?q=Mixe...roubleshooting
 
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Old 02-16-15, 12:44 PM
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Hi I actually knew it was a mixet it says on our knob

but the other information you provided is really helpful thanks

Just yesterday one of the shower faucets started leaking, is this related to the cartridge replacement? I have a plumber coming out soon. I have added a picture of the leak, its leaking hot water.

http://i.imgur.com/LLod8Au.jpg
 
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Old 04-24-16, 07:28 PM
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hot water cross over

About 2 weeks ago our hot water started getting less and less hot, now it is completely cold. If I turn the cold angle stop off at the sink, so only the hot water line can feed the faucet, and turn it on, water flows. If I turn it to the completely hot setting water flows, but if I turn it to the completely cold setting the water stops. (No crossover in the faucet). Here is the tricky part, if I turn off the cold water feed to the hot water heater, with the faucet on hot only, the water will still run. This happens in all of my sinks except one. In the hookup closest to the hot water heater, if I hook the hose to the hot water angle valve and turn it on, HOT water flows out. If I then turn off the supply to the hot water heater, the flow stops (as it should). Only this one sink functions this way. When this is happening I can hear the water being taken out of the hot water heater, and new water being put in. When I turn on any other faucet it is not even trying to draw water out of the hot water heater, even if I have the cold angle valve on the faucet turned off (so it can only draw from the hot circuit). Also, I turned off the angle valves to the dishwasher and washer/dryer for all the tests.

To summarize, the faucet closest to the hot water heater works flawlessly. All other faucets will only run cold. When the cold water angle valve is turned off, and the faucet is turned onto hot, water runs, but is cold, and is not even trying to draw from the hot water heater. Everything seemed to work fine 2 weeks ago, and no plumbing has been tampered with.

PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

Thanks Will
 
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