Hello!

I've done a ton of searching and thought I had this figured out, but...

BACKGROUND:

I bought a flipped house that I've lived in for nearly 5 years. It's my first home, and while I'm not yet looking to sell, I know that I'm not very far from being ready to put up the For Sale sign.

The contractor work done in this house was very unprofessional, as has become extremely apparent with the passage of time. One of the very first things I did after moving in was replace the shower heads - it was here I noticed that the threads were not wrapped in tape. This has proven to be true on every threaded fixture I've examined since then (I've corrected each as needed when leaking was present if not replacing the attached fixture). I also noticed that caulk wasn't used almost anywhere plumbing was involved (including the kitchen sink and downstairs tub).

I noticed water damage in our downstairs hallway ceiling a couple of weeks after moving in. It didn't take long at all to narrow it down to being the fault of the shower above, and it got worse every time it was used.

TODAY (not used in 4 years):



We use the toilet and sink in this BR regularly with no change in the spread of obvious damage.

The upstairs shower is tiled - back then, I thought that perhaps the corners needed to be caulked. When that failed, I tried using a sealant on the grout. That didn't help either. Given the half-assed work done on everything else I'd seen, I concluded that the shower was totally unusable, and without the budget to have it fixed professionally, gave up. The stall itself became a sort of storage area since the bathroom it's in is not quickly accessible and wouldn't be a place we'd ever have guests.

Fast-forward to this month: I've performed a number of small repairs and upgrades since moving in (most recently replacing the wax seal under the downstairs toilet and upgrading the sink/faucet in the kitchen for my wife) and felt I might be ready to investigate and attempt to correct this issue again.

The backside of the shower is accessible from the attic, and while I can't see under the floor directly, I can reach it with my phone easily enough to take a picture. I discovered this:



The issue seemed obvious and I researched how to replace the drain assembly. After I began working to replace it when I realized that everything I'd looked at in regards to the replacement was assuming a preformed shower base.

This is where I'm stuck: I know nothing about the actual construction of this shower. When I removed the drain body from the shower earlier today, I found things that seemed wrong, but now I know I don't know enough about what I'm doing to have any confidence in repairing it in a half-assed manner, let alone correctly.





After I got the drain body removed, I noticed a good-sized single chunk of mortar had been trapped between the flange and the body. I removed this (see on the left side of above picture - PVC not discolored), but now I'm not sure if this is something I can correct with a bunch of silicon caulk in the space between the body and flange. It seems like the chunk I found could allow a leak, but knowing that these are designed to allow water from the pan escape into the drain, it doesn't seem like that's the the end of the story.

I expected to see some kind of evidence of a shower pan, but I don't know what I'm looking at, quite frankly, and I can't find guidance online to provide me a clue. What do I need to do to fix the leak? I do intend to replace the damaged ceiling below myself, but I'd rather not do that yet... or remove tiles IF I can avoid it, so I want to be sure it's necessary to diagnose the cause before doing it or if it's already obvious to someone else.

I've got to admit: I'm a little worred about having to do a major overhaul of this shower to fix the leak. I don't consider many DIY things above my paygrade, but not having enough of the tools or time available make it hard to justify for me. On the other hand, if I could afford a pro to fix it, I would have done that by now!

Ready to have it usable, though! Is there anything anyone can tell me with the pics provided? Will dig deeper if needed...

 

Nothing but bad news to give you. I don't think the proper drain way used, even though in appearance, it looks like a multi-part drain body, it is not installed correctly. Shower drains by code should have a 2" throat, yours clearly is 1 1/2". Your drain body also sits at the level that should really be the top of the pre-slope for a custom built shower pan. So it appears that the drain used would be the kind that you would find on an acrylic or fiberglass base, and not one used with a pan liner. It is possible that they used a Kerdi drain system, but given that it was a flip, I hardly think that they would have gone through the expense.

The sleeper floor system also gives pause. It is as if they took an existing closet and made it into a shower by stealing from the other room. They, the pipes did not fit correctly, so they modified or something. Does the shower sit higher in the room than the main floor? Obviously, they could flip a 2 full bath house for more money than a 1 1/2 bath house.

Wish I had better news, but I'm afraid you are looking at a tear out and rebuild, caulking isn't going to fix anything.

 

Thank you for the response!

How far down do you think it needs to be torn out? Is the scope of work something I could do by myself or should I start looking for professional help for certain tasks?

It's very possible that closet space was used to construct this shower, as there is a very tiny closet (about 2 feet wide and 5 feet deep) on the other side of the widest wall. The floor of the shower is at the same level as the rest of the flooring however (see lower right for comparison):



EDIT: It may not be obvious from the pictures, but the shower floor does have a slope - correct or not, I can't say.

Here's some additional information about the building: The house was built in the early 50's and was constructed as a single-story 2BR/1Bath. Many of the houses in the neighborhood were this style of construction. It's also super common that many had some sort of expansion or upgrade built on at some point. In this case, space was taken from the attic and expanded upon. All of this had already been done before it was bought by the company that flipped it.

Thanks again for your time - I long suspected something major would need to be done. You can be damn sure I'll know what I'm looking at next time I buy a house!

 

I'm trying to figure out if your additional picture has confused me more or not? I can not figure out why there would be a 2"x2" shelf that runs the perimeter of the shower. The fact that they used large format tile for the floor is also suspect to a proper pan installation. That thing could be leaking from just about anywhere. Which way does the drain flow in relation to the last picture? To rebuild, you will need to fit a 2" trap under the drain which will cause it to sit below the level of the rafters below the current drain line. You then have to determine how you can marry with the current main drain line for the bathroom. May include additional tear out.

I'll let you read this article, it has multiple parts, this is the link to page 1. It is about 90% accurate and I will fill in the blanks missed if you choose to do this yourself. At a minimum, you will have to remove the first full row all the way around the shower and the complete curb. How to Create a Shower Floor – Part 1

 

Here's a very quick and dirty sketch of the layout:



The red is the drain line. I went from memory for this, but I think that's all you were really looking for for now? The star is approximately where I held my phone to get the pic from below the floor.

I'm going to read the article you linked to now. Thank you very much!

 

I've read the articles (including about the curb and packing mud) - the good news is it all sounds like stuff I can do if taken in those steps and allowed enough time to set up (shouldn't be a problem as I generally can only work this on weekends).

It also sounds like I need go ahead and plan to cut out the ceiling below so I can install the trap before building it back up above. I'm assuming that I'll need to cut out at least the bend + a foot or so, then give the new bend a slight angle to allow the trap some space and then angle it back to the existing line. Does that sound resonable?

I don't know yet if I'll be able to pop those tiles off today, but plan to do it soon if I can't. Some of the ones installed in the floor of the shower are cracked (from my reading, this is one of the reasons why this type of tile shouldn't be used - but it's everywhere in the house, seems pretty obvious that they just picked up a pallet of the cheapest stuff they could find) so I'm not terribly concerned about trying to preserve those. Any suggestions for what to use (size, type, etc) in finishing it at the end?

Do you have any other thoughts about that curb going all the way around? Should I be able to rebuild with that as is, or do I need to get those tiles off before we can tell?

Thanks so much for your time!

 

I've installed showers and never had to access from below. Depends on what you can get to as far as the pipes. Changing from 1 1/2" to 2" PVC is going to be your biggest challenge. Remember that in a custom shower, you can put the drain where ever you want, so you can clear the other obstacles in the floor joist system.

The fact that the shower floor tiles are cracked is another sign that it was done wrong from the start. Look for 2"x2" tile for your floor. When you create your mudbed it will be like a bowl in shape. The smaller tile will be easier to lay on a rounded shape.

Once you demo, we can look at the curb all the way around issue. I have my suspicions, but won't reveal my theory just yet, just know that it needs to come out (if it can come out).

 

I'm planning to remove the first full row, curbs, and floor tiles as you instructed. Quick reading suggests use of a cold chisel and hammer (will need to go get the chisel). What are the odds of needing to remove the subflooring? Is that going to be required to move the location of the drain? I'm honestly not bothered by the location of the drain - if I can avoid taking up the subfloor, that's my preference for now.

I just took another look at the drain pipes for this bathroom and noticed this:



This is taken top-down. Guess which one is for the shower! (Hint: smallest one) What's going to be involved in fixing that? Can it be done without having to replace the joint?

I think I know how this was missed in inspection - it seems like it was rather intentionally covered by the insulation.

I'm sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I understand what I'm getting myself into so there are no surprises. I'll get more pics if needed.

 

From what I see its a major mess...

No trap for the shower is the main concern. Deadly sewer gas is being released into the home.. Somewhat dangerous....

And who knows how the toilet is hooked into the stack and whats on the stack below .. Another bathroom?

Looks like a gut job for the shower and replace all piping. May need to demo below to access the stack....

 

Yes, the downstairs bathroom is below - in the picture of the damaged ceiling from the beginning, it is to the right from where I was standing when I took the picture.

The perspective on the last picture is strange, but the pipe running to the right is (I believe) the toilet and sink. The one in the top of the frame is the vertical run. I haven't really paid much attention to these before today, and don't have significant plumbing knowledge, so I'm more than a bit alarmed at your statements. I understand why the trap is needed, but how much of the piping needs replacing? I get that it will need to be replaced as far as the joint in the stack, but is it more than that?

EDIT: Checked again and the vertical stack does egress through the roof, if it makes a difference.

 

If this bath drains into the satck and the downstairs bath is vented in the stack then its all not to code. Its wet vented and it cant be...

Additionally that bath needs to be vented properly.

I have a post with a dual bath pipe schematic. I will find it and post back...