Flange connection for SS linear shower drain

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  #1  
Old 08-22-15, 04:34 PM
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Flange connection for SS linear shower drain

Hi, I bought a stainless steel linear shower drain that has the drain pipe on the end so I wouldn't have to cut a floor joist that runs through the center of the future shower space and to simplify the slope and tiling process.
The shower drains at lowes/hd screw in to the flange and are larger diameter (vs my 1.5") and their flanges are also made to fit 3-4" pipe while I'm running 2" from the shower to the 3" main soil pipe.

If I can't find a smaller diameter flange I plan to just stick a 3" - 2" adapter on it, but the drain opening will still be to large.
Is it acceptable to just drop the metal linear drain into the flange? Thanks.

 
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  #2  
Old 08-22-15, 07:42 PM
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That looks like a trench drain that goes outside the shower pan. I used one for a handicapped shower that didn't have a curb. Where did you plan to install it?
 
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Old 08-23-15, 01:45 AM
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I was planning to install the liner on sufficient slope and clamped in the shower flange. Then I'd embed this drain in mortar such that it will be flush with the tile floor.

The drain is to be placed where it's sitting in the image below. The curb will run parallel with the floor joists from the pocket door opening to the wall so the entire shower floor slopes on one plane to the linear/trench drain.



I was trying to figure if there is a downside to leaving a gap between the metal drain that will hang into the larger flange opening as any water that may splash out of the opening is still above the liner and will drain.

I'm now thinking that the pea gravel that's needed for the weep holes will need this to be sealed so it doesn't wash down the drain. I could fill this void with pvc bushings or a rubber gasket, but I doubt it would be water tight. Just enough to keep the gravel out of the drain.

I guess my question was really, "Does the drain/flange connection have to be water tight?" If so, it may be necessary for me to get a linear drain that has the flange built in to the drain such as the one in this video, but I really don't want to spend $600 - $1000 on a shower drain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdrqJAvqt3A
 
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Old 08-23-15, 04:24 AM
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I never saw one of those drains installed that way. I imagine that it can be done. Wait for Lawrosa's opinion.
 
  #5  
Old 08-23-15, 05:00 AM
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Please send a link to the actual shower drain you are installing, not a representative video of what you may need to do. I have installed several linear drain showers and the brand I use has a shower pan liner membrane already installed on the drain body itself. Obvious concerns are proper waterproofing. So I will need to review the specs on your specific drain to be able to provide proper guidance.

Have read your posts several times and am somewhat confused as to what size drain lines you have. All shower drain bodies, including yours, will have a discharge pipe sized at 2" as this is code. If your current drain line is at 1 1/2" as you are replacing an old tub with a stand up shower, that drain must be upgraded to 2" all the way to the main stack.

Also, give us more detail on the type of tile to be used. Type of shower floor to be used. Planned floor prep to include size and spacing of your floor joists, unsupported span of the joists, thickness of subfloor and number of layers. Finally, type of pan liner and wall backer board you will be using. Might as well hit all notes while we are in the beginning stages to get it right.

Apologies of a response is not timely, as I will be out of the house for an extended time today. I will however check back once my activities are complete. There are others who can help as well.
 
  #6  
Old 08-23-15, 06:41 AM
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So, I went with the cheapest linear drain I could find that has the drain offset. Thus, eBay:
New Stainless Steel Bathroom Linear Shower Drain in Brushed Nickel Free Shipping | eBay

I got the 27.6" length to cover the entire width of the shower floor, which I know is smaller than code permits, but that's the allotted space I have in this 500 sq-ft house. Also, I know that the 1.5" drain (actually 4cm) isn't code here, but it will allow for sufficient drainage for a maximum 2.5gpm shower head so I'm fine with it.

This house has only a toilet, bathroom sink, and kitchen sink. I'm moving the toilet, bathroom sink, and have installed a pocket door to make room for a 32" x 60" shower (28" x 60" inside the curb).

The current DWV system is a mess and no more to code than the electrical system was, which I have already replaced. I will be cutting out the plumbing from the main line and redoing it all, today.

The shower gets a 2" drain line and 1.25" vent going up through the wall to tie into the other new vents to be ran through the roof (currently it vents through the wall.)

The floor joists are on 24" centers. I will be reinforcing the floor 2x4's perpendicular to the joists and using a single layer of 3/4" plywood for the shower/bathroom subfloor.

I was going to tile the entire shower and put in a glass door, but the exterior wall at the shower is out of plumb 1 1/4" at 7', same as all walls parallel to it.
I thought of shimming the walls out so I could have a square opening for the glass door, but the thought of the house shifting put me off of it. So, no tile for the walls and no glass door.

I will put the shower flange down, mud bed with slope flush with the flange, pvc liner on the floor and up to curb height, vapor barrier on studs and draped over pvc liner, cbu over that, set the linear drain in a second mortar bed, thinset and tile the floor, frp adhesive and frp panels or tileboard for the walls.

For now, I've got to reinforce the exterior wall that has termite damage and any studs that will get holes for my vent pipes. Then I'll be running my new dwv system.
 
  #7  
Old 08-24-15, 07:12 AM
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Sorry for the delayed response...

For the life of me, I can not figure out how you would get that drain water tight in a shower installation. Again, you did not provide a brand name so that I could search installation instructions to advise on the install. I know you have already taken pause and just looking at the picture of the unit is not enough. Best I can tell, is a bead of caulk around the flange, but there is nothing to hold the body down.

Here is the unit I use - Linear Shower Drain | Curbless Shower Drains | QuickDrain While I think some of the installation videos they present over simplify the process, none the less, the integral flexible flange allows you to cement drain in place. You then marry that with a waterproof membrane (its similar to kerdi membrane) that you spread throughout the whole room. They also have pre-sloped floor wedges to get the proper slope. However, as expected, is substantially more expensive than what you have. It, however, should give you ideas on what to look for during your search for another more suitable drain body.

I would also like you to review this link as it covers the basics of installing a mud bed. How to build a shower - Building a shower pan with pre-sloped mortar bed, liner and curb. You will want to incorporate many of the procedures into your build modified to account for the linear drain. Note that the pan liner extends up the wall 9" and not simply to the curb height. You also want to waterproof the walls so that any seepage is directed back to the pan. I prefer to use preformed curb forms that slip over the triple 2x4's however you can build your curb from scratch if you desire out of cement and lath. Do not use cement board on the curb as you do not want any nails/screws puncturing the membrane.

Straighten up the walls now even if it means that you lose a little space to the inside of the shower. Also, plan on what kind of door you will be hanging and ensure that you have sufficient nailing/anchoring surfaces for the weight of the door. That pocket door will make this part a challenge. However, you can not hang a heavy glass door on the tile and cement board alone, it need some beef behind to hold the screw tight.

Give me more specifics on the floor joists system. 24" on center is all that was provided. The size of the joists and how far they span is important. And to be up front, a single layer of ply may not cut it outside of the shower area as the mudbed will add a slip sheet for the tile. The tile in the room itself will not have that luxury.
 
  #8  
Old 08-25-15, 09:54 AM
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The brand on the product page says "Unbranded." I have no information on it. I just needed to offset my shower drain so I wouldn't have to move that joist. I thought the linear drain with an offset outlet would look better than moving a standard drain off center so, after seeing how expensive these are, I went to eBay.

I didn't even think of waterproofing the metal rectangular flange. I figured I'd just set it in mortar and any water that didn't flow into the drain would seep down to the liner and flow to the weep holes on the circular clamping flange/drain. As long as the liner is sloped and no water gets to any wood, I should be good, right?

I considered shimming the walls out so it could accept a glass shower partition if someone wanted to put one in in the future, but the entire house is leaning 1.25" so I don't want to risk a catastrophic failure if the house moves again. (Though I wouldn't be surprised if it was just built out of plumb.) I'm leaving the walls as is as I've never noticed it until I checked to see if it was square and plumb for the glass.

The floor joists are 2x6, 8' span. I'm considering using 2 layers under the shower area, but my ceilings are 7'3" so I was trying no to build it up too much.

The walls and floor will not be tiled. Just the shower floor. The walls will have a moisture barrier, cbu, and finished with frp panels or tile board. The pocket door wall will have plywood before all that for rigidity.
The only entrance to this 5' x 7' bathroom is through the pocket door, which is hollow core luan.
The floor outside the shower will have a seamless vinyl sheet.

And, to be clear, the topic of this post was about bonding the linear drain's 1.5" outlet to a 2" clamping flange/drain. I now know that the issue is the fact that I'm using a 3rd rate product and its outlet is less the standard 2"

From what I can tell, this linear drain was engineered cheaply for people who won't think or care to have it 100% sealed. I can't afford a product proud enough to carry a brand name, so I'm just trying to make it functional.
 
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Old 08-25-15, 01:53 PM
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I think I am starting to follow your intended path. You are going to install a traditional multi-part drain body and instead of installing the finished strainer, you are going to shove the linear drain body down into it and hope for the best. Answer to your original question on how to marry a 1 5/8" SS drain extension into a 2" drain body...you got me. Unconventional at best. I'd be remiss to not mention that the weep holes will most likely be clogged in your intended design.

Regarding other aspects of the build, run the liner up the walls a least 10". Then run additional liner on the wall itself, overlapping the pan liner to sheet everything to the center. Making sure there are no seams in the corners. I would not rely on the FRP alone to waterproof the shower.

With FRP or tile board, how are you addressing the curb area? Sounds like a real challenging install to say the least. I have my reservations as things sit right now.
 
  #10  
Old 08-28-15, 08:02 AM
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I hadn't figured the specifics of the curb yet. Since you mentioned it, I thought about it and landed on tile with a marble top and rethought the build a bit.

I was originally going to use Aquadefense (Lowe's Redguard/Hydroban) for the entire shower, but ran into issues with waterproofing the drain (which required the use of a pvc liner to address the possible leak around the tack welded outlet, the reason I came here.) Then I discovered the walls and floor to be out of plumb/level/square (so I no longer wanted to risk tile on the walls) and decided to use frp panels. I could no longer use Aquadefense on the walls because the frp adhesive may never fully cure if sandwiched between two waterproof materials.

I've since been to the store and saw that the tile board has a Masonite (tempered hardboard) back, which is porous enough for me to risk adhering it to a liquid membrane with liquid nails. I won't have to worry about my seams leaking and I'll be able to build my curb out of 2x4s and CBU, sealed with a liquid membrane.

Also, the nearest sized marble threshold they sell is 54" to my 60" opening. This gives me just enough leeway to build a 3" wall (wall curb?) on each side of the opening to plumb/square it up.

I think the only unresolved issue is getting that trench sealed to reduce/eliminate water flow to the weep holes and to keep mold from developing in saturated mortar. I'm thinking my second layer of mortar will have a 3/4" deep trench for me to shove my linear drain into and the second part of the pvc drain (standard 2" threaded with a grate) will be flush with the bottom of this trench. Then I'll run Aquadefense over the lip of the pvc drain, cut a 4cm hole in the grate, and drop the metal outlet into the pvc. Any water that gets passed the silicone sealing the metal lip of the linear drain will flow to the circular grate (AKA unconventional weepholes.)

The linear drain won't be fastened down. I don't think I'll have issues stepping on it and wearing the silicone out too soon with it being off to the side. Plus, I'll be able to remove it to inspect the waterproofing underneath, check for mold, and reapply silicone.

And thanks, czizzi, for the tips and pushing me to think this through a bit more. Feel free to shoot any of my ideas down
 
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Old 08-28-15, 09:58 AM
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Don't use liquid nails for the surround, you want a shower surround adhesive. Straight liquid nails can bleed though the surround material so you want one specifically designed for the task. It is found on the top shelf of the adhesive isle at the box stores. Hint, buy more than you think as it doesn't go as far as you think and you can return the extra.

My concerns have always be the waterproofing of the shower. I personally would not stake my reputation on redgard and some caulking keeping water from causing issues. I've torn out enough showers that looked totally fine only to find water damage to the studs or subfloor. As I said before, your approach is unconventional and not a solution I would employ to complete the installation. Your reason for the linear drain is because you could set it offset relative to the floor joist. Not a good enough reason for me. If you custom build a mudbed, you can install the drain body where ever you want, it doesn't have to be center of the shower. You just make sure all slopes toward the drain and you are good.

Regarding the joists, you indicated that you would use 2x4 blocking. I would boost the blocking up to 2x6 as the 2x4's will not add much strength to the floor. Even if you have to cut a hole for the drain pipe, it it will still be stronger than just a 2x4. And it should go without saying, but the 2x6 should be installed like a joists - vertical and not flat.
 
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Old 08-28-15, 04:27 PM
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I was going with liquid nails based on the instructions on back of the tile board and the liquid nails website. I'll be sure the adhesive I use it made for this environment.

At this point the plan is to have the shower double waterproofed (tile board + liquid membrane on walls and liquid membrane + pvc liner on the floor) and I may add a vapor barrier between the cbu and plywood on the walls. I did choose the linear drain to simplify the process, but that was a major oversight on my part. It would probably still be better to just tile a standard drain in the corner, but I already have the linear drain so, as I see it, caulking the linear drain yields the same results as tiling the trench. I'm hopeful.

I'll sister the 3 joists and add 2x6 blocking under the shower pan and bathroom walls that have made a depression on the subfloor.

I just need the shower functional so my parents can tear down the main house that currently exists for its shower and storage space. And I only need it to last until I graduate, at which point this house may be torn down too. I definitely won't go this route in the future, but I want to see how it turns out.
 
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