New shower rain fall type arm and valve body questions?

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Old 09-06-15, 09:26 PM
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New shower rain fall type arm and valve body questions?

[fyi, this is a project with permits]

Two questions... Thanks in advance!

Q1: I'm installing a new shower with a rain fall type shower head. The plan was to have the shower head arm descend from the ceiling. However, I've started to become concerned that the PEX and or drop-ear will freeze\crack in the winter months. Figured I'd foam-wrap insulate the 24" piece of horizontal pex in addition to the R15 batt insulation I was planning to do. In the picture below, the red\green 2x4s and green painted ceiling wood is basically the bottom of the roof. That probably sounds weird but this space was a screened in back porch in the 1980s, finished into the rest of the home in the early 2000s and I'm now turning one of the rooms into a bathroom. Anyway, back to the problem. If I don't drop it from the ceiling then I'd have it protrude from the wall with at least a 20" shower arm and one of those diagonal supports. While the 20" horizontal shower arm with support is an option it's not as visually appealing to me for a rain fall type shower. Does anyone have thoughts on the likely hood of the PEX and or drop-ear freezing\cracking during the winter months even with the insulation methods I've described? I live in Denver, CO where temperatures drop below freezing a few months out of the year.




Q2: The position of my valve body does not allow the PEX to easily bend 90 degrees into the sides. Is it OK that I use these 90 degree pieces behind a wall? Below is a picture of what I'm talking about.

 
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Old 09-07-15, 05:14 AM
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With adequeate instulation, you should be OK. I would wrap and stuff as much insulation over and under the pipe as possible. I would also, at least in that bay cavity, make sure that the you stuff the cavity of the ceiling rafters to cut off that bay air flow from the soffet vents. Consider the following as well:

-Return the Delta rough in that you have and get the rough in specifically designed for PEX. It has the barbs already attached. I would not trust the set up you have to be buried in a wall. If the box stores don't have it, visit a plumbing supply house, it should be in stock.

-Rethink the position of your rain head relative to your light fixture. As currently set up, you will get nothing but a huge shadow throughout the shower and you will regret what you have.

-Are you going to have multiple shower heads or just the rain head out of the ceiling? If multiple, then consider a 3/6 way diverter in addition to the current rough in valve. It will allow you to use multiple shower heads at one time, or any single based on preference.
 
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Old 09-07-15, 09:57 AM
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Sorry if this reply seems short, I had typed up a nice response, hit submit and the page timed out.

-Return the Delta rough in...
I'll see what I can find. Could I also not just use these sweat pex elbows?



-Rethink the position of your rain head...
Believe me I have. I'm trying to fit in two lights in addition to an exhaust fan. The current position of the lights is slightly off the wall as to cast light down and off the wall as well as not cast a shadow from the shower head. Below are two pictures of what I'm trying, in theory, to do. Picture #1 shows the light position close to the wall and picture #2 shows how the light casts down the wall. I understand these pictures are different, soft vs hard light, but this is what I have in mind. Also below is a picture showing both my lights. Let me finish rouging in the electrical and I'll briefly power on the lights (with shower trim) with the shower head temporarily placed so to see how the light falls.







-Are you going to have multiple shower heads...
Nope.
 
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Old 09-07-15, 10:17 AM
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In the future, if you time out, there is a auto save function to retrieve your data. It will show up at the bottom left of the reply box and say "restore auto saved content". Click on that and your post will reappear. The only catch is that you need to do it immediately. If you go off and do other things, the save will be lost for good.

Here is a link to the pex rough in - Delta MultiChoice Universal Tub and Shower Valve Body Rough-In Kit with 1/2 in. PEX Crimp Connections-R10000-PXWS - The Home Depot

You can also get one with integral shut off valves built in for ease of cartridge changes down the road.

What is your tile design and how are you planning on highlighting them with the wash lighting? The only fear of pushing the light to the wall is that you will see any ad all variation in your tile layout. They will show up as shadows if your tile install is not top notch.

I like to include a traditional shower head in addition to the rain head as an option. Or at least include a stub out for a hand held with slider. Particularly if you are or have a lady in the house that will be performing some shaving in the shower. Will need some convenient way to wash the legs of shave cream. It also would assist in rinsing the shower down come cleaning time. A hand held allows you to rinse the whole shower in one giant pass. Having a rain head only may be awkward for simple things like soaping up or lathering shampoo. Normal shower heads allow you to turn your back to lather. If the only source of water falls straight down, you have to step aside to lather or divert the spray away. Just food for thought.
 
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Old 09-07-15, 11:28 AM
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czizzi,

Thanks for the timeout tip.

Regarding the PEX rough in, this still gives me the issue of not having enough room to 90 the PEX in. Also, I have dedicated hot/cold 3/4 supplies with easily accessible shut offs running to this new bathroom. Unless I'm missing something I don't think I need a valve with integrated shut off valves.

I'm admittedly copying the design of the pictured bathroom I found online. My tile however will not go floor to ceiling. Although it could I haven't' planned for it.



Regarding the inclusion of a traditional shower head, you and my wife both . I'm simply trying to cut costs. Switching to a Delta Vero setup that facilitates a traditional shower head increases cost. But since you brought it up perhaps you can help me better understand what all I need to make that happen. Below is what I've come up with to complete the install. The valve body you listed is shower and tub. All I need is shower-only with a diverter right?











 
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Old 09-07-15, 03:02 PM
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this still gives me the issue of not having enough room to 90 the PEX
Far as I can tell from your pics in post #1, you have plenty of room for 90 degree turns.

Vero is a nice set up and you will not be disappointed. I have done several. With the 3 function diverter it is critical that you follow the rough in instructions. It says to cap off the right hand port. This is because the valve body also accomodates a 6 function diverter cartridge (use 3 shower heads instead of 2). That port is reserved for the third shower head set up.

Here is basically how you want to rough in your valve. This is for a vero hand held with rain head. Basically exactly like yours except with one light. ALso in a ranch with the ceiling the attic crawl.

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Not sure your tile set up, but you want to do all the higher math to figure out where all the elements are going to land so that you look balanced. The hand held stub out falls nicely on a grout line, same with the valve and diverter set ups. Here is the finished of the previous pictures. Note how everything is centered and balanced.

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Old 09-20-15, 12:50 PM
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czizzi,

Sorry for the late reply, if only this project could be my only job . The pictures you attached of your project are very helpful. I noticed on your diverter you came out the top for the handheld and out the left for the shower head. Any reason why?

Thanks!
 
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Old 09-20-15, 01:35 PM
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denergsd

It had to do with the positioning of the individual units in association with the placement of the studs I had to work around. The right hand port is reserved for a third unit (body sprays etc) and that is why it is capped off. I also needed to position the roughins so that it worked with the tile pattern proposed.
 
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Old 09-20-15, 01:43 PM
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I see. For my install it's easier to come out the top for the shower head and the left for the hand shower. Thanks!
 
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Old 09-20-15, 01:58 PM
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You said
For my install it's easier to come out the top for the shower head and the right for the had shower.
I said

It says to cap off the right hand port.
I said again
The right hand port is reserved for a third unit (body sprays etc) and that is why it is capped off.
This will be the third and final warning - you can not use the right hand port as pictured. It is reserved for the 3rd unit of a 6 function diverter cartridge. You are using a 3 function diverter. The 3rd port (RIGHT SIDE) is inactive in a 3 function set up. You will really curse yourself if you put your whole shower together only to find that on3 unit does not work.

Please study page 4 of these installation instructions for your diverter. It explains the 3 vs 6 function differences. Note they both use the exact same rough in.

m.deltafaucet.com/media/MandI/51833RevD.pdf
 
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Old 09-20-15, 02:13 PM
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Yes yes, I understand. I edited my comment after I noticed. Don't mean to waste your time. You've been a lot of help. Thanks again czizzi.
 
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