Change or clean toilet flapper?

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Old 12-30-16, 06:27 PM
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Change or clean toilet flapper?

I have this toilet: American Standard Champion 4 Max Right Height 2-piece High-Efficiency 1.28 GPF Single Flush Elongated Toilet in White-2586.128ST.020 - The Home Depot

Recently occasionally I heard water flush sound while no one at bathroom, must be leaking. the flapper on this toilet is kind of different than the normal one. Is there any guide on how to replace flapper on this model?

thanks!
 
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Old 12-30-16, 08:16 PM
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Have you tried the dye test first to make sure?
 
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Old 12-30-16, 08:22 PM
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tested by shutoff valve, out of three test, one test showed water leak.
 
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Old 12-30-16, 08:53 PM
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tested by shutoff valve
Stickshift is suggesting to test by adding food coloring to the tank and watch it over a few hours to see if it shows up in the bowl.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 12-30-16 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 12-30-16, 09:09 PM
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We don't use food coloring at home so I've tested by shut off the valve and that showed it was leaking. Will food coloring test show additional info?

Thanks!
 
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Old 12-30-16, 09:59 PM
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Pour something with color into the tank so you can see whether any of the colored water is leaking into the bowl.

I have no idea what shutting off the valve would show.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 12-30-16 at 10:11 PM. Reason: tank > bowl
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Old 12-31-16, 05:07 AM
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A flapper relies on its softness and the weight of the water in the toilet tank above it to seal to the tank outlet.

Clean off the rim of the outlet at the bottom of the toilet tank, to make sure it is smooth. (Do not use sharp or hard objects to do this.)

If the flapper is more than a few years old it may have started to harden and therefore should be replaced.
Less than perfectly soft water may leave residues on the underside of the flapper so it does not seal well.

For just the above reasons the flapper may seal some of the time and not at other times. If the dye test shows leakage at least twice you might as well replace the flapper.

You can try to clean the old flapper to hope that you can avoid spending the time to make a trip to Home Depot to buy a new flapper. But if you are already near or at Home Depot you will save time by buying and replacing the flapper rather than conduct extensive tests.

Do not stock up on flappers. They will gradually harden even when still in their packages, although much more slowly compared with being installed and in use.

Dye will give a better test than Gatorade or Coca Cola since just small amounts of the latter will be too dilute for the color to show up in the toilet bowl.

If shutting off the valve under the toilet tank shows a drop in water level in the tank there is no need to do any more tests. Go ahead and replace the flapper.
 
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Old 12-31-16, 11:51 AM
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If shutting off the valve under the toilet tank shows a drop in water level in the tank there is no need to do any more tests.
Thanks for this nugget, Allan. I could not figure out what shutting off the valve would show.
 
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Old 01-01-17, 10:59 AM
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Thanks you all.

Yes I meant to say shut off the water supply for the tank. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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Old 01-01-17, 03:30 PM
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Shutting off the water supply is the best leak test. I have had flush valves that leaked minute amounts of water that a dye test would not show. I am talking about a very few ounces per hour. Leaks in this range cause the tank to top off every few hours and it drives people crazy at night.
 
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Old 01-01-17, 05:51 PM
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In my experience, trying to get an leaking flapper to seal properly is a losing battle. They are relatively inexpensive so I would replace your flapper.
 
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Old 01-01-17, 05:57 PM
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Sometimes you also have to replace the spud it seals against if it still leaks after a new flapper.

Oddest problem I ran into was the first new flapper I tried wouldn't seal and I would have to buy a similar one from a different manufacturer before I got it to seal. I think my record was three before one sealed. Doesn't make sense I know but that was my experience.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 01-01-17 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 01-02-17, 09:26 AM
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Shutting off the water supply is the best leak test. I have had flush valves that leaked minute amounts of water that a dye test would not show. I am talking about a very few ounces per hour. Leaks in this range cause the tank to top off every few hours and it drives people crazy at night.
how do you detect it is flush valve leaking? did you have to replace the whole flush valve?
 
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Old 01-02-17, 09:47 AM
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Something else to check is where on the flush valve assembly it is leaking. I had a similar problem with my Champion 4 and American Standard instructed me to turn off the water supply and leave it for 24 hours to see where the water lever settled. Where ever the water level is at after 24 hours of no use is where you should look for the leak.

- Peter
 
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Old 01-02-17, 03:07 PM
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It was a 1980 American Std that I had replaced everything in the tank. The overflow/seat/flapper was Sioux Chief. I cured it by tossing the Sioux Chief flappers and replacing with Korky's. Never bought another Sioux Chief. I have found Korky to be the most consistent of flappers, with Fluidmaster in 2nd place.
 
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Old 02-13-17, 06:32 PM
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Replaced the flapper on American std toilet and the leak seems gone!

Another toilet (one piece kohler toilet) had similar mystery leak, changed two different new flappers, Fluidmaster and Korky, still has random leak. Looks the flapper is not the culprit?

Shut off the water supply, after a few days, water in the tank was almost all gone, just about 1 inch of water left.

What's the next thing I should try?

I'm thinking just to replace the everything in the tank with a new kit like this one: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Korky-Unive...Kit/1000089015

will this kit fit one piece kohler toilet?

Thank you.
 
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Old 02-16-17, 11:01 AM
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Run your finger all the way around the rim on which the flapper rests. Are there any burrs or gouges or sediment buiildups?

If you replace the spud assembly (at the bottom of the tank) be aware that there could be burrs on the aforementioned rim from the plastic molding process that could cause an imperfect seal of the flapper.

For toilet tanks for which the flapper keeps the sleeve that fits over the overflow tube as opposed to use the ears that fit over pins or hooks on the side of the overflow tube, be sure that the flapper comes down centered over the spud and without one side settling down before the other side.
 
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Old 02-16-17, 11:50 AM
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The rim was pretty smooth as far as I tested using my finger.

The leak is much more frequently than before I changed the flapper...
 
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