No Hot water in one bathroom out of four

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  #1  
Old 01-09-17, 03:18 PM
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Question No Hot water in one bathroom out of four

At a lost I have a Price Pfister mixer faucet in this particular bathroom. I did some research on YouTube and I thought replacing the cartridge would be the answer to my problems. The cold water runs in the sink but not in the shower (trickles). GET THIS - If I turn on the hot and cold water faucets in the sink and then turn on the shower the water comes on without a problem (No Hot Water just Cold from the sink and shower). The other bathrooms and the kitchen have hot and cold water without any difficulties. Help Please.

R/S
Aaron
 
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  #2  
Old 01-09-17, 03:38 PM
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I see that you're in Georgia, ruling out the possibility that the hot water pipe is on an exterior wall and that particular length of hot water pipe could have been frozen while not in use, right ?
 

Last edited by Vermont; 01-09-17 at 05:15 PM.
  #3  
Old 01-09-17, 04:32 PM
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It sounds like you need a new shower cartridge.
 
  #4  
Old 01-12-17, 03:39 PM
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No, this particular bathroom is downstairs not far from the hot water heater. The hotwater heater is downstairs and so is the bathroom which is also located next to a room that should have been the kitchen.
 
  #5  
Old 01-13-17, 08:07 PM
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I changed the cartridge out, no change
 
  #6  
Old 01-14-17, 05:27 AM
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@ Vermont - As far as I know the hot water pipe is inside the house, this particular bathroom was not finished all the plumbing was already completed. From the best of my knowledge the room went unused for about just estimating 12 years. The cold water side in the sink works fine on the hot water side just a trickle. In the shower on the hot water side a trickle of water and the cold water side a little more than a trickle. Funny thing is when you turn on both faucets in the sink the cold water comes on in the shower when the cold water side is turned on. I thought that there may have been some valve installed to shut off the water to that bathroom. I cut some patches out of my wall and ceiling to see if I could locate a valve but nothing. There is room next to this bathroom that can be used as a kitchen it is unfinished as well with the exception of the plumbing. I installed valves on the plumbing and there is water coming from both sides ( I haven't let the hot water side run long enough to see if it gets hot, I will try that today.
 
  #7  
Old 01-14-17, 07:17 AM
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It sounds like the hot water line to the shower is clogged or stopped up for some reason. It sounds to me that this is what is happening. As you may know a single handle valve works by varying the output pressure to changes with the input pressure. To keep you from being scalded in the shower when someone flushes a toilet. If you have no hot water coming to the shower valve, the valve itself will shut off the cold water. Now if you turn on another cold water tap the difference in pressure between zero on the hot and something higher on the cold reduces allowing some cold through the valve. This is your trickle of water you see when you turn on the sink's water.

If the shower is fed off of the line from the sink, I might want to see if both those lines produce water. Can you remove the cartridge and turn on both hot and cold separately to see if water actually flows out? If it does, I think you must have a bad cartridge and if one water line doesn't, there is your problem.
 
  #8  
Old 01-14-17, 08:07 AM
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I like the diagnosis OptsyEagle posted.

Along those same lines, I think you have a bad lavatory faucet, especially if it's a single handle mixing valve.

To test if that's the problem, shut off the angle stops and remove the faucet supply lines.

Flush each line into a bucket and see if you have good flow from each and the hot is working.

Check if the shower works normally with faucet isolated.
 
  #9  
Old 01-14-17, 09:02 PM
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@ Handyone

The lavatory faucet is brand spanking new, (it is not the single handle mixing type) the angle stops are new. Before installing the stops the cold water side has good flow, the hot water side nothing but a trickle. I tried to blow the line out with air from a compressor (thinking that it was clogged) nothing.
Should I retest using your theory and then check the shower with the faucet isolated?
 

Last edited by MrWill; 01-14-17 at 09:24 PM.
  #10  
Old 01-14-17, 09:23 PM
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@ OptsyEagle

I was also thinking that the line could be clogged, when I replaced the shower cartridge with a new one while in the process of changing out the old one cold water came out(on the right side of the fixture, pipe, orfice, not sure of the correct terminology) there wasn't any hot water coming out at all.

If the shower is fed off of the line from the sink, I might want to see if both those lines produce water. Can you remove the cartridge and turn on both hot and cold separately to see if water actually flows out? If it does, I think you must have a bad cartridge and if one water line doesn't, there is your problem.


I did not try this. What I know:
The house was built in 2004 in the basement the bathroom and kitchen were not finished but the plumbing was installed.
I purchased the house last year, there were two owners before me. I installed the toilet and supply valve, the shutoff valves for the sink and the sink, shower head and handle. Plus the new cartridge I installed a few days ago.
Sink - Cold water side works - Hot water side does not (just a trickle) I tried blowing out the line with a compressor (no change)
Shower - Cold water side a trickle - hot water side nothing
Strange Occurrence - with both faucets open in the sink the shower produces a stream of cold water (not a strong stream but a big difference)

In the test that you want me to perform when the cartridge is removed you want me to turn on the faucets in the in the sink to see if I have any flow from the shower orifice that has the cartridge removed?
 
  #11  
Old 01-14-17, 09:30 PM
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Don't retest my theory.
Optsy posted:

Can you remove the cartridge and turn on both hot and cold separately to see if water actually flows out?
These problems can be complicated so hang in there.
 
  #12  
Old 01-14-17, 10:41 PM
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@ Handyone - Optsy

Hanging in there. Is there a way that I can blow the shower line out with air?
 
  #13  
Old 01-15-17, 12:58 PM
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OK. I am a little confused. Does the water coming into the room go to the sink first and then T-off to the shower or does it come to the shower first and T-off to the sink?

If it comes to the sink first and you said above the sink has no hot water then why would the shower ever have any. The problem would be somewhere before the sink?

If you are sure that you don't have any valves turned off, if water can come out a pipe I see no reason why you cannot shoot air into a pipe. The only concern I would have is what do we think might be restricting it, if not a closed valve. I doubt it would be sediment build up. Pressurized lines would rarely get that type of build up, unless it was shut off for a very long time. What is more likely is the washer of a disintegrated tap. That might be something more difficult to blow out because where is it able to come out even if you could move it at all.

That being said, most two handle faucets can allow for back pressurized water. If you think about how a faucet works. You have water under pressure on the hot side and water under pressure on the cold side. Whenever you open either tap or both water flows out the spout. If you have no water on one side of a faucet like that and open up the other side that does have water, water will flow to both the spout output and flow into the other pipe that has no water. This is probably what you saw in the shower above when you opened both sink taps. Now, with all that explained, if you open up the tap with the pressurized water in it and open up the tap that does not have water in it, AND put a washer or a big thumb or something to close the spout, the pressurized water will backflow into the other pipe. This might work better to dislodge something then trying to blow air. You would want the main tap, that services the pipe that you want to backflow, closed and open some other taps in the house so that the backflowed water has a place to go...as well as anything in there that shouldn't be in there.
 
  #14  
Old 01-15-17, 03:11 PM
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@ OptsyEagle

I will go down and do some experimenting based off your suggestions. I have removed the shower head and capped off the line. From what I can tell is the sink receives the water first, I just have to make sure where the kitchen area comes into play (whether or not if the kitchen receives the supply first or after the bathroom. In the kitchen I have water pressure on both sides I just haven't let the hot water side run long enough to see if the water turns hot. I will be going down to check after the kids go down and I will report later on this evening.
 
  #15  
Old 01-17-17, 07:47 PM
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@OptsyEagle
Sorry for taking so long to post, here is the skinny.
There should be a picture of the shower valve core attached to this post. When I had the water in the house off I removed the shower valve. With the shower valve out warm water ran out of the shower valve cavity. (yes warm water)

I turned the water back on for the house I left the shower valve out on purpose just to see what would happen. Water shot out of the hot water side of the cavity, I immediately ran back to shut the water off because it was making a huge mess in the bathroom.

After I cleaned up my experiment gone astray I checked the bathroom sink to see if I had hot water (No).
I checked the shower to see if I had hot water (No Hot Water or Cold Water just a small stream).

In the kitchen area next to that bathroom I installed shutoff valves on four copper pipes coming out of the wall. Three of the pipes which were 1/2" all ran cold water when I opened them up. The fourth copper pipe is 3/4" when I opened the shutoff valve on this one a small trickle of water ran out and then nothing.

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I also cut a couple of patches out in the ceiling to try to locate the pipes to determine what area got water first. It looks as though the bathroom gets cold water first it looks like sink first and then shower. As for the hot water from what I can see the hot water pipe is coming from another area that I haven't determined yet, and then the shower gets it first and then the sink.
I hope I didn't confuse you.

Aaron

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  #16  
Old 01-18-17, 10:11 AM
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Yes. I am a little confused. To recap. The problem is that you do not get hot water out of the shower (when the shower cartridge is in) or the bathroom sink. I believe that you said that you get cold water from the bathroom sink but not the shower unless you open both taps of the sink...then you get cold water. You also said that the hot comes to the shower and T's off to the sink and the cold goes to the sink and T's off to the shower. Let me know if I got that wrong.

It seems to me that the only way you would get the symptoms above is if you have a restriction in Both the hot water and cold water lines BETWEEN the shower and the sink. I think my logic is good but I will explain it and perhaps find out it is not:

You have hot water flowing out the shower when the valve is off. That tells me the hot water line is fine when it enters the bathroom. You have cold water in the sink. That tells me the cold water line is fine when it enters the bathroom. You have no hot water to the sink, so there must be something restricting the hot water as it goes from your shower to the sink. You have virtually no water in the shower WHEN the valve is in place. Since we know the hot water line to the valve is good, it tells me that you must have a lack of cold water to the valve and if that is the case, the valve itself will shut off the hot water in the shower.

To confirm the above you could do your messy shower test again with the valve OFF and open up the cold water and if I am right, no water should come out.

Now if I am right there must be shut off valves, on both lines, between the shower and the sink and both must be closed. The probability that you would have two lines that both got completely clogged is about nil percent.

My head hurts on this one but I will await your reply in what I probably have wrong but I can't think of anything else that would give you the symptoms you have.
 
  #17  
Old 01-18-17, 03:57 PM
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MrWill, a question:

There are situations where you would have 4 angle stops under the kitchenette sink, although 4 stops are not necessary.
Was this planned to have 4 stops? 2 hot for Faucet and Dishwasher, 2 cold for Faucet and Filter?

OptsyEagle:

I'm thinking maybe some type of jumper was cut at the kitchenette sink and a stub out was added.
This makes my head hurt too.
 
  #18  
Old 01-18-17, 09:27 PM
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@Handyone

We bought the house last year everything was in place. I'm not sure why it was done that way 3 stops are 1/2" pipe (cold water) and the other stop is a 3/4" pipe which I believe is for hot water because nothing comes out of it.
 
  #19  
Old 01-18-17, 09:35 PM
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Yes. I am a little confused. To recap. The problem is that you do not get hot water out of the shower (when the shower cartridge is in) or the bathroom sink. I believe that you said that you get cold water from the bathroom sink but not the shower unless you open both taps of the sink...then you get cold water. You also said that the hot comes to the shower and T's off to the sink and the cold goes to the sink and T's off to the shower. Let me know if I got that wrong.
The above paragraph is correct.

To confirm the above you could do your messy shower test again with the valve OFF and open up the cold water and if I am right, no water should come out.
To perform this test should I shut off the water supply to the house?

Now if I am right there must be shut off valves, on both lines, between the shower and the sink and both must be closed. I thought about this but, why would anyone do this? Isn't there some type of code or something that states that if stops/valves are used that they must be in plain site or marked? I'm feeling like I may have to rip into a wall.

I really appreciate all the assistance you have given me Thank you very much. I'm still plugging

Aaron
 
  #20  
Old 01-19-17, 04:56 AM
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For the messy test I was thinking that you would turn off the hot main and turn on the cold main and with the shower valve out the cold water should flow...but since I am thinking there is a cold restriction between the bathroom sink and shower it will not. It will at least identify where you actually have water in your bathroom. With two people (one at the shower and one at the main) and perhaps a bucket and some rags you should be able to reduce the water mess, but you would know more about that than I.

I don't know much about the codes but a valve behind a wall kind of defeats its purpose and ability to be used. I like to think that people's intelligence has evolved above the level of a cave man and that they would be smart enough to have turned those valves to the ON position BEFORE they built a wall over them, but this problem is very strange.
 
  #21  
Old 01-19-17, 06:14 AM
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Also, what is the story with that kitchenette? Is it possible that the cold and hot water enter the bathroom. Cold goes to the sink. The hot goes to the shower and before they cross over to each other they EXIT the bathroom to that kitchenette. Perhaps if the taps on the kitchenette are closed they not only close off the kitchenette but also the re-entry into the bathroom.
 
  #22  
Old 01-19-17, 09:52 PM
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I would consider opening up the wall in the kitchenette to expose all pipes. I think someone made a mistake when installing the angle valves under the kitchenette sink.
3 cold angle stops and one non-working hot stop makes no sense whatsoever.

I posted: maybe some type of jumper was cut and stop installed.
Optsy posted: they (the valves) not only close off the kitchenette but also the re-entry into the bathroom.

Now if I am right there must be shut off valves, on both lines, between the shower and the sink and both must be closed. I thought about this but, why would anyone do this? Isn't there some type of code or something that states that if stops/valves are used that they must be in plain site or marked? I'm feeling like I may have to rip into a wall.
I have seen valves inside walls for shower supply lines.
Although the installer was in the wrong (had a bad idea), the reasoning was the installer could install all surrounding fixtures and work on the shower later, allowing the rest of the house to have water in the meantime.
 
  #23  
Old 01-22-17, 06:41 PM
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There is not much wall in front of those pipes, I thought it was weird seeing those 4 pipes coming out of the wall. I installed the shutoff valves to find out what type of water they supplied, I was also hoping that by opening them up I would offset or release the pressure that was causing the problem (Wishful Thinking On My Part). I will open up the wall in morning and post a pic for you.

I still think there maybe some valves installed somewhere I just don't know where to look without ripping out my walls and ceiling. I cut out a patch in the ceiling in the vicinity of the bathroom and I can see the cold water supply pipe running from the sink to the shower. The hot water pipe looks as though it is coming from the ceiling above the shower and then it runs to the shower and then the sink. (There is a bathroom above this bathroom - water problems there)
 
  #24  
Old 01-22-17, 06:50 PM
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Kitchenette - The taps were originally capped off, I installed shut-off valves to find out what type of water they supply. It looks like the hot is supplied from the bathroom above it and then it goes to the shower and then the sink. I can also see the cold as it goes to the sink and then the shower I am not sure how the kitchenette is supplied. I guess I will find out tomorrow when I cut into the wall where the pipes are located. I will keep you posted.
 
  #25  
Old 01-23-17, 07:12 PM
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Ok I cut in the wall today and this is what I found, the two top ends is actually one pipe with two ends inline. As with the two bottom ends it is actually one pipe with two ends inline. The stud that the pipes run through are labeled hot (top one) and cold (bottom one). For some reason or another I am not able to post the pics for you to see. What is the purpose of that?
 

Last edited by MrWill; 01-23-17 at 07:55 PM.
  #26  
Old 01-24-17, 04:56 AM
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Sounds fairly useless to me. Is that wall the other side of the bathroom wall that we were discussing upthread? Could you see how the bathroom pipes connected or not connected, etc.

Perhaps the idea was to get the drywall work done for the kitchenette with the pipes coming through. Later cut the pipes in the middle (inside the wall) and T-off them to connect the sink to the shower in the bathroom. This would only be a mildly good idea if the wall on the other side allowed access to cut/solder/connect the pipes for some further use.

Obviously, to seal up pipes that do not connect to a water source is of no use and would in almost all cases be considered pretty dumb. Perhaps he/she thought there would be something in the pipes way and wanted to create a piping that would go around it and decided to do that inside the wall. Later he/she would connect water to those pipes. In other words, water would go into one end and come out the other end and just be diverted through the wall for a short distance. I am working hard here trying to give this renovator some level of common sense, but he/she has made it very difficult.

If you can't see the bathroom piping in the wall your tore down I am starting believe that is your next wall to break into. It seems to me that you need to see those pipes between your bathroom sink and shower.
 
  #27  
Old 01-24-17, 01:16 PM
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The kitchenette is next to the bathroom (left side of bathroom facing it). There is a wall that separates both rooms. The kitchenette pipes are ran through a wall (knee high - 8 to 10 feet in length) I cannot see where they are connected, it appears that they run the length of the wall and are connected to the shower (guesstimating) maybe around the shower valve area. - Description of what I saw the hot water pipe is a 3/4" pipe at the end of the run the pipe is Teed off 3/4" capped off out side of the wall and on the other side of the Tee is a half inch pipe ran outside of the wall. The cold water is ran the same way except that the whole run is 1/2" pipe including the Tee. (I am still trying to figure out why it was done that way.)

The bathroom water supply pipes are ran in the ceiling, the appears to receive its hot water from upstairs.

If you can't see the bathroom piping in the wall your tore down I am starting believe that is your next wall to break into. It seems to me that you need to see those pipes between your bathroom sink and shower.
I have partially seen the cold water pipe from the sink to the shower and I can see the hot water pipe dropping down from the ceiling to the shower. I guess I have another wall to go into, that's what I like more work to go with the headache lol. This so strange why all the work to run the pipe, install sheetrock for the walls, prep and paint the walls if the work wasn't done correctly in the first place.

Not done yet still working on it. Thank you again for everything I apologize for passing along a headache
 
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