High drain + garbage disposal..

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Old 02-25-17, 01:39 PM
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High drain + garbage disposal..

Hey all,

I need some guidance on this. This is an old house, and my kitchen sink drain was plumbed with copper (can't for the life of me figure out why ) - now the copper is leaking. I have already patched one hole in the basement (as you can see in the one pic). I have plans to finish the basement soon and I was going to dig into replacing this pipe anyway since it comes out so far and would affect the basement room. I couldn't really figure out why they did it this way until I really started looking hard at it today because I traced water on my kitchen floor to another leak at the garbage disposal tee.

The only thing I can think of is that the "vent" is actually where the drain was before the original disposer was installed decades ago (the Badger was installed a couple years ago when that one quit) and this copper abomination was added due to the height of the drain.

However... Looking at it now, if I remove the copper and go back to the original drain, the trap weir would be approximately 1.5 - 2" below the disposer outlet. It would involve some creative piping but I think it could be done, unless there is a minimum distance requirement. There is a vent coming through the roof right there so I know the original drain is vented. I'd much prefer to do it that way so I can eliminate that extra pipe and seal that hole in the floor.

Downstairs I intend to cut that 45 off at the ceiling and replace the steel pipe with PVC using Fernies.

I'd rather not have to lower the drain because the house is done in mudwall and it was not pleasant when I had to replace the sink drain pipe in the bathroom a few years ago - and I had the vanity out when I did that, I wouldn't want to have to do it with the kitchen sink/cabinet in situ lol!

Thanks!

(Don't judge the mess under the sink lol! )




 
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Old 02-25-17, 08:00 PM
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I would advise lowing the tee in the wall, the wall can be fixed.
Even if you use a center outlet waste (a double slip tube baffle tee, disposer elbow changed to side discharge), it looks like it won't work.
The depth of seal is 2" min, 4" max but you still need to fit the trap and the tee in.

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It might help to get an ISE evolution series disposer if you are very close to making this work. The Evolution series has the highest point of discharge that I know of.
You could also get a High-Low sink and place the disposer on the high side.
Most customers prefer the disposer on the small shallow side of sink and that might give you enough room.
 
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Old 02-25-17, 10:05 PM
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Like I said I'd much rather not have to tear into the mudwall (cement plaster over expanded metal mesh, if you're not familiar with it) with the cabinet/sink in place, and pulling that cabinet out is not an option at this time. I'm not at a point to afford remodeling the kitchen, and as much as I loathe the cast iron/porcelain sink, I don't want to have to replace it right now either.

I figure if it's allowed, I can install a straight outlet on the disposal (or turn the right angle sideways and clock the disposal to an angle that works) into a tee on its side, then use a long right angle arm from the other bowl elbowed into the top of that tee, then connect the trap to the bottom, fold the weir arm back, and elbow it into the drain pipe.. Since the tee would be under the bowl with the disposer I shouldn't need a baffle tee to keep the water from splashing into the other.

This is sort of what I'm imagining, but with the disposer going into the middle of the tee and the bowl arm elbowing into the top, and the trap being directly (or with a very short tail) connected to the bottom..

 
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Old 02-26-17, 07:48 AM
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Don't turn the elbow sideways. It's OK to side discharge using a tailpiece:

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An ABS trap might be a little shorter in height than the slip tube. Connect the ABS trap to the copper with a special 1.5" copper to pipe Banded No-Hub coupler.

The tee or baffle tee you're using will work on slip or ABS with a slip nut.

*The picture you posted is one of my jobs if you can believe that
 
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Old 02-26-17, 09:46 AM
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Great, I will keep you posted.. Are the outlet pieces somewhat universal? IE: Can I go to HD and find one or do I have to order it? And I'm taking out the copper completely, this is the second leak that's shown up in less than a year, so it's probably completely corroded from the inside.. Seriously, what moron thought copper would be good for a kitchen drain??

The connection at the wall is a female copper threaded bell, so there must be a male stub from the steel pipe in the wall. I'll just unscrew it and put on a PVC adapter.

And that's funny, yeah I was looking on google images for something that looked like what I want to do - since I suck at drawing - and that's the one I found lol! When I pasted the hotlink I saw it was posted on this site but didn't know who posted it. So thanks twice!
 
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Old 02-26-17, 10:23 AM
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The side discharge tube is a regular 1.5" flanged sink tailpiece available anywhere, it doesn't matter the tailpiece flange is a little thicker than the elbow flange.

It would be great to start with a threaded adapter. The other option is to cut back to good copper (leaving a stub out) and use this fitting to connect an ABS trap:

1-1/2 in. EPDM Rubber Shielded Coupling-P3001-150 - The Home Depot
 
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Old 03-04-17, 02:53 PM
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Whelp, things did not pan out as I had envisioned. When I cut off the copper at the wall, I found a pile of rust/flakes/other crap inside, which made me question the integrity of the pipe in the wall. Good thing too, because when I went to cut the pipe downstairs, the upper vertical piece between the Y and the 45 literally fell off - it was completely rusted away at the threads - and the pipe itself was jammed with rust/debris. So at this point I completely abandoned the pipe in the wall since it only served the kitchen, and ran new PVC through the floor with an AAV. When I am ready to remodel the kitchen I will open up the wall and replace it properly but at least I have use of my sink again...

 
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Old 03-04-17, 02:56 PM
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Does the vertical pipe include an air admittance valve?
 
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Old 03-04-17, 03:17 PM
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Yeah it was either that or an S trap, so I went with the lesser evil.
 
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Old 03-04-17, 04:20 PM
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Looks great, i'd say you did a good job. Plumbing almost always is a bigger job than you bargained for. That and at least 3 trips to the store instead of 1.
 
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Old 03-04-17, 05:09 PM
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Looks great to me too...
I would advise you check local code and just use the same configuration even if you get new cabinets.
 
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Old 03-04-17, 05:36 PM
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One thought.... take off the horizontal section on pipe from the right sink and look in the end of that tee... look to see if the elbow that comes from the garbage disposal is blocking any of the flow that comes from the right sink. It looks a bit cramped in that one spot to me.
 
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Old 03-04-17, 06:47 PM
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if the elbow that comes from the garbage disposal is blocking any of the flow that comes from the right sink
Hi X
The disposal elbow cannot block the flow. It's hard to see in the pics but the elbow will only insert into the top of the tee about 3/4".
The elbow was shortened, I personally use a multi-tool to make quick work of it.
 
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Old 03-04-17, 06:58 PM
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Thanks, yeah the elbow was too long so I took about 1 1/2" off it with the bandsaw. The top of the baffle tee is "belled" like the inlet of a trap or drain arm so you can't insert it too far.
 
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Old 03-04-17, 07:18 PM
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Oh yeah I can see that now.
 
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