Toilet Leak / Questionable Horn Shape

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Old 07-14-17, 11:56 AM
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Toilet Leak / Questionable Horn Shape

The toilet in my powder room is leaking (again) and I am puzzled by the construction of the horn. Worked fine with three flooring changes in 20 years (all very flat/smooth). Then 2 years ago, had tile guy replace floor with tile that is a little uneven. He reset when finished, but I later found leakage in basement, so I fixed with a new wax seal and shims. Movement is mainly in rocking front to back. All was fine for over a year-- until cleaning ladies decided to remove some shims. I fixed again, but sometime it started leaking again.

1. No water on powder room floor - it drips down into storage area in unfinished part of basement.
2. Tried to use new wax seal yesterday. Followed directions to place on toilet first, but maybe I didn't set it down precise enough -- it leaked. In the past, I have marked the outline very well, placed wax seal on flange, then set toilet down precisely and it has always worked. I realize this is like asking if you prefer Ford or Chevy, but can I continue my way?
3. Looking at the horn rim (see photo 1) there is a scalloped-out part that is about 1/4" below the rest of the rim. It is not damaged - it was made this way. Is this a major or minor issue?
4. Sales guy says "the best seal that always works"... it's Photo 2. Will that thing allow for the dip in the horn?
5. Also picked up one of those green gasket 'Sani Seal', but got home and read bad reviews, plus it didn't pass the eyeball-test regarding fit and sealing. Photo 3
6. In an effort to have at least some water on the floor (and not all in the basement) IF it leaks again, I have tried to use silicon all around the outer part of the flange, plus some wax. Last thing I need in the morning is "Honey, let the dog out, and while you're up, check for leaks in the basement."
7. Rather than put the entire thing back together (tank, supply, etc.), can I conduct proper tests by dumping water with a bucket until it flushes several times?

Sometimes I laugh when Murphy throws in a few new wrinkles on my projects ... but not today.

Thank You ALL!!
Wayne

Photo 1: Questionable horn shape
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Photo 2: New **guaranteed seal**
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Photo 3: Sani Seal - I question the fit and reliability
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Old 07-14-17, 01:15 PM
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Hmm "powder room, "cleaning ladies" who shimmy. Who has it better than you?

What year was the house built? Does it have a cast iron lead bend? You can try one of the rubber seals if you are having trouble with a wax seal. BTW, wax seals have #s. #3 is the thickest iirc.
 

Last edited by ShortyLong; 07-14-17 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 07-14-17, 02:03 PM
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House was built in 1993 and has pvc/cpvc thru out the house - including the flange. The wax seal from yesterday's fiasco was an 'Everbilt Extra Thick' and the box says #10. The one I bought today is 'Everbilt Extra Thick and Reinforced', and the box says #35 (I have not tried to use it yet).
 
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Old 07-14-17, 02:08 PM
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UPDATE:
(1) Since I knew it would rock from front to back without shims, I just put a level from front to back on the floor and see that it’s a bigger drop off in back than I had thought. I think my next trick will be to set in place without wax and try to shim all points to be level.

(2) I think I may be doing the wrong thing by using an ‘Extra Thick’ wax ring? The horn on the bottom is flush with the entire base (except for the two small indentations, which I assume are to let wax escape when under pressure during install) From what I’ve read, the wax should compress from ½ to ¾ of the thickness of the wax. In my case, with a flange at floor height, should I just use a normal thickness wax ring?
 
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Old 07-14-17, 02:31 PM
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You need to use the thickest wax ring (likely the one with a rubber flange) and you need to set the toilet edge in a bed of plaster of Paris, wiping off whatever squished out. Google it if you dont know what I mean.
 
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Old 07-14-17, 02:31 PM
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Too thick wax ring is not an issue, it is the rocking. They make toilet shims but don't rock the toilet to find the low spot after you have already compressed the wax ring. That negates the seal you made and thus your problems. Reset the toilet with new wax ring, make sure the toilet contacts the ring and you have to squish the toilet down until it hits the floor with your body weight. No resistance means no seal was made and the wax wasn't thick enough. Once toilet is on floor, do not move or wiggle. Instead take your shims and go around the toilet and insert. It will float where the shims are needed. Bolt the toilet down and when all is tight with the shims. simply hit the bowl with the palm of your had to make sure it is snug.

Alternatively, you can set it in plaster of paris following Lawroas step by step guide found here.
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/to...let-again.html
 
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Old 07-14-17, 02:51 PM
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Thank you both for those suggestions. I saw the thread about using plaster, but since I have had several leaks to the basement - with no water on floor near toilet - I'm afraid to risk that just now.

I will now go set without wax, get shims and somehow try to lightly glue shims in place, then add the wax ring and follow suggestions for setting in place.

Thank You!!
 
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Old 07-14-17, 03:02 PM
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Wax ring it, set it in place and THEN add shims. If a shim is not needed, you will not be able to slide one under. Pre-glueing shims is a waste of time. Just do not disturb the toilet after you place it into the wax. I would bolt it down by hand to steady while you add shims and then snug it tight (but not too tight). Somehow, you are overthinking this. I've set hundreds of toilets.
 
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Old 07-14-17, 04:49 PM
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Hopefully I don't jinx myself by declaring victory over the dreaded toilet, but after about 10 flushes, there are NO LEAKS!

My reason for wanting to get at least one shim in position, in the back, was due to the big movement that direction -- and in case I teeter/totter after adding the wax ring and while snugging down.

Thank you all!!
 
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