Toilet flange replacement...and move

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  #1  
Old 12-16-17, 06:01 PM
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Toilet flange replacement...and move

In preparing for a new toilet I found a flange in pretty bad shape. The first image attached is the flange, and my initial attempt to remove it. The second image shows the toilet drain from the basement, looking in the opposite direction as the first image.

I was initially going to just replace the flange, which I could still do. But I measured and the flange is 13" from the wall instead of the common 12". It's a small bathroom, I really would like to push the toilet back that 1".

Should I cut the pipe at the elbow? If so, how would I remove the remainder of the pipe sitting in the hub of the horizontal straight section? And how would I deal the with 1" off set that I'll need to move the flange? Should I just fix the flange and be done?
 
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Old 12-16-17, 06:21 PM
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I'm pretty sure that you have a copper riser on your cast iron hub that has been sweated onto a brass flange. Those brass flanges are commonly available... our lumber yard stocks them, less than $10. Last time I did one, I just had to use a torch on it, heat up the solder, bend up the copper flare and clean it up... throw the old flange in the scrap pile, put the new brass flange over it, flux it up, hammer the copper flare down tight onto the beveled part of the flange, then resolder it.

I'm no plumber but it seemed like a pretty simple job. Course I've sweated a lot of copper, so it wasn't much different.
 
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Old 12-16-17, 06:29 PM
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The picture may not show it well, but it really does seem like a cast iron flange. The one piece that I managed to chisel off is gray...and it was very tough to chisel. House was built in 1953.
 
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Old 12-16-17, 06:31 PM
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Could be. I think the one I replaced was iron too... brass doesn't rust. But if you want to replace it use brass.
 
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Old 12-16-17, 06:35 PM
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I'm going to disagree with X. I certainly could be wrong but that looks to be all cast iron to me. IF it is all cast iron you might be able to break out the elbow and then replace it with PVC or ABS using a rubber "donut" in the hub of the cast iron. Using plastic might get you an inch closer to the wall, depending on exactly where that wall is located.

Several more pictures might help and try scratching the vertical pipe to see if it is copper.
 
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Old 12-16-17, 06:41 PM
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And the gap between the flange and the pipe on the righthand side of the picture is what I created with a drill bit and recip saw.
 
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Old 12-16-17, 06:45 PM
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Maybe it is cast... it looks like there are some letters to the right of the seam.
 
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Old 12-16-17, 07:02 PM
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In the basement picture it says "BUFF" on the elbow.

I'd try taking a torch to the lead/oakum flange joint, but I only have a normal respirator.
 
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Old 12-16-17, 07:04 PM
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The riser looks cast... If it was lead then the flange would be brass..

Since its cast the flange is probably leaded on with oakum/lead etc..

So if you cant lead one back in you will need to cut the cast in the basement. Cut the elbow off and leave a clean piece of cast. Install a no hub and repipe in PVC...
 
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Old 12-16-17, 07:08 PM
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Watch this... This is what I think you have..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIa1sTMenXc
 
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Old 12-16-17, 07:12 PM
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If you can get it off and pipe is intact and not damaged you can maybe get a compression flange on..


 

Last edited by lawrosa; 12-16-17 at 07:17 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-17-17, 05:36 AM
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The Home Depot here carries the hub compression donut, but I've read that these are not "to code"?

I'm going to get a proper respirator and try to get the flange off today. If I have to cut the cast iron pipe at the horizontal section (2nd pic) that would require busting into the basement wall.
 
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Old 12-17-17, 09:00 AM
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As for the 12" vs. 13" there are offset flanges that you could use. Google "offset toilet flange" for a vide variety.
 
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Old 12-17-17, 01:58 PM
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The flange came out easy enough. Once I applied my air chisel on the flange the lead joint loosened immediately. Then just a little prying. The pipe seems to be about 3/8" above the finished floor. Will this be a problem? Will I have to grind it down?
 
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Old 12-17-17, 04:30 PM
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Youll have to vacuum it all up and take clear pics so we can see how good the pipe is...
 
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Old 12-17-17, 05:19 PM
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Here are a couple more pictures:
 
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Old 12-17-17, 06:14 PM
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Looks good.. Scrape the sides of pipe clean and get that cast outside flange IMO.. I dont like or use the inside type
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 12-17-17 at 06:17 PM. Reason: spelling
  #18  
Old 12-18-17, 05:00 AM
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Cast outside flange? And join it how?
 
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Old 12-19-17, 06:45 AM
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I found a flange across town. Cast iron, outside, compression seal type. My concern with this is that a perfectly round pipe is required to seal well. My pipe isn't. I already have to grind down the pipe seam as well as some letters cast into the pipe.

It's this:
Sioux Chief cast iron closet flange
 
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Old 12-19-17, 11:03 AM
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Well you can use an inside pvc one too, but whats the condition of the inside?

You can cut that pipe lower and install a no hub coupling then a piece of PVC, and a PVC glue flange...
 
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Old 12-20-17, 01:30 AM
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To use that flange (and I think it's a good flange) you would take it apart and lay the bottom part over the 4" cast iron, keeping in mind the orientation of the toilet bolt bolt slots. You'll need to chip some of the concrete out for it to fit, and you'll have a little more room for grinding after that. Set it with a few tapcons (masonry anchors) and it'll outlast all of us.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 02:46 PM
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I'm back at this.

I used a grinder to smooth down the seam and raised cast letters of the pipe. I can now get the lower section of the flange onto the pipe. The seal, however, has a lip inside that to me indicates where it stops on the pipe. This leaves the flange well above the floor surface.

The top of the pipe is about 3/8" above the finished floor. Even if I grind it down to level (a LOT of work there), it still wouldn't bring the flange to rest on the finished floor.

Is this flange maybe not right for this pipe? The lower section of the flange only just barely fits around the pipe.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 03:23 PM
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Remove that test cap in last pic and lets see what you got... The top piece should go down way mor then that
 
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Old 12-30-17, 04:50 PM
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Pic 1: The flange will sit flush on the finished floor with the seal removed.
Pic 2: Total height with the seal removed.
Pic 3: Total height with the seal installed.
Pic 4: Side of seal.
Pic 5: Bottom of seal.

Does the seal have to be cut? If so, where?
 
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Old 12-30-17, 05:11 PM
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The seal get cut right above the bevel (the rest is for use test cap). The bottom of the flange should sit on top of the floor. I would try to grind the pipe so it's flush with the top of the flange. Noisy & dirty, but shouldn't take long with a regular grinder. If you're using a dremel it'll take a lot longer.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 05:44 PM
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Oh, it gets cut at the top of the bevel! I thought the top just gets cut out and leaves the vertical wall to seal as well. It should fit then.

I may not be able to anchor this, though. I had to remove a lot of mortar to get the flange bottom to fit. There's like nothing left to anchor to.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 05:49 PM
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Run long lags sideways,,,, try to catch the plywood...

I never used that type of flange... I use the standard supply house roncos...

https://www.ferguson.com/product/pro...xoCpaMQAvD_BwE

Even the Otays are better... More wedge style sealing and bigger ribbed rubber surface

https://www.oatey.com/2372585/Produc...-Closet-Flange
 
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Old 12-30-17, 05:57 PM
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Can I squirt some silicone in there before tightening the seal down? The seal is neoprene. What is safe for neoprene?
 
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Old 12-30-17, 09:01 PM
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Yes, see if you can angle some anchors to hit wood or concrete. I don't see any harm in squirting some silicone in there, but it's probably not necessary.

And imho, there's nothing inferior with a Sioux Chief flange (virtually identical to the Proflow quoted above). Sioux Chief is a well-known established plumbing manufacturer.
 

Last edited by steve_gro; 12-30-17 at 09:02 PM. Reason: added some words
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Old 01-01-18, 06:10 PM
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Haven't anchored it yet, but I should be alright. The hole in the wood subfloor was too large to expect screws to make it. I added some wood below.

A test fit of the bowl showed a wobble. I ground the pipe down to the flange. Still wobble. Dopey me didn't check the flatness of the floor before bolting the flange in place. I'll check the bowl on a flat section of floor and remedy.
 
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Old 01-01-18, 08:20 PM
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I set my toilets in plaster. Never shimmed a toilet ever...

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/t...let-again.html
 
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Old 01-01-18, 08:55 PM
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Looks good from here & it ought to last forever.

Nothing is perfect though (the floor, the toilet, etc). A little tweaking is to be expected.
 
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Old 01-02-18, 05:23 AM
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Good tip on the plaster. I can't wait to try that.
 
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Old 01-07-18, 06:53 PM
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Toilet's in. Great tip on the plaster.

How good it is to sit down in upstairs warmth again.
 
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Old 01-07-18, 07:01 PM
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gr8,,,, Glad it worked out....
 
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