Fail to install Sioux Chief 825 Series Shower Drain

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  #1  
Old 07-28-20, 06:32 AM
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Fail to install Sioux Chief 825 Series Shower Drain

Hello all,

My shower pan is leaking from the bottom. I followed the installation instructions for 825 Series Shower Drain and reinstall a new shower drain but the issue still exists.
https://www.siouxchief.com/docs/defa...allation-guide.

When water accumulates above the drain hole, the water will sip through the bottom. Yes, I am working on the clogged pipe now but the clogged pipe revealed the leakage issue.

Also, I refer to this installation video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsRuJ1bgIWA. But the water still sips through the bottom when water overflows in the shower pan.

In addition, this installation video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AiwgCv_7yw suggest one-quarter turn after hand-tight the shower drain.

Question> Does anyone give me some suggestions to fix this issue?

Proposal 1:
Also, I would like to use plumber's putty(i.e 9 oz. Stain-Free Plumber's Putty) because it is very hard to remove the shower drain after applying the silicone to seal the edge. I have an access door under the shower pan so if it leaks in the future it will be easy to reinstall with putty. However, I have installed the shower drain with silicone twice and every time it is painful to remove it.

Proposal 2:
Also, I like to add some silicone tape or putty on the thread of the shower drain so that even if the water backup, it will not be allowed to sip through the thread.

Can anyone help evaluate my proposal and give me some suggestions?

Thank you

Update:
I called the manufacture and the support guy said "if the shower pan overflows then the bottom seal will leak because that is expected".

So the key question I want to ask is as follows:

Will the shower drain with 825 series installed leak when water backup?

Since the shower drain is not super-tight again the fiber-glass shower pan and both surfaces are not perfectly flat. I start to believe that the shower drain will leak through the bottom of the shower pan, if the pan is overflow. However, I would like to listen to some expert's opinions on this before I redo everything.





 

Last edited by q0987; 07-28-20 at 07:56 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-28-20, 07:59 AM
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Do not put any sealant on the threads if you ever want to remove it again. Those large diameter threads can be difficult to remove when clean and can be impossible to remove if someone put goop on the threads. Besides, that won't stop water from leaking out around past the gasket which is where yours appears to be leaking.

With leaks like that the cause is usually movement. Either the pipe or shower pan are moving slightly. Usually it's the shower pan flexing as people move about showering which eventually can break the seal. The only long term solution I've found is to firm up the shower's floor and redo the drain.

Remove the drain. With the drain out of the way you have some access to the space between the subfloor and shower base. I pack this space with mortar or squirt in structural foam to support the shower pan so it can't move. Then thoroughly clean the drain parts and reinstall as if doing a new installation.
 
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Old 07-28-20, 08:39 AM
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@Pilot Dane,

In my case, the leak might not cause by the movement of the pan because when I test the leakage, I stand outside of the shower pan. It only leaks when water clogged and filled up the shower pan.

I did talk to the customer support from Sioux Chief 825 Series and he said the following

1> the rubber sealing washer and friction washer is not super-tight again the subfloor by design
This also mentioned by other installers on Youtube.

2> when the shower pan overflow then it will leak through the seal.
I am not sure whether this is the case.

But I come here for a second opinion because I had done the best I could.

Redo the shower pan might not be an option at this moment.

Thank you
 
  #4  
Old 07-28-20, 09:10 AM
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Was the bottom of the pan where the rubber seal sits smooth?
Some fiberglass pans are pretty rough here.

They probably want silicone because of what Pilot Dane commented on (some movement) but I am guessing here..

Did you give the rubber seal a thin coating of grease before installing it.
This helps the nut slip on it so it does not bind.
Some units come with a paper like washer that goes between the nut and the seal.
I still grease these when installing.

 
  #5  
Old 07-28-20, 09:18 AM
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@manden,

The 825 series has both a rubber washer and a friction washer. so the lubricant is not required.

I think I have unclogged the shower drain, but the issue still exists.
Also, I just tested, even the bath shower is not overflowing, there still is a tiny bit of water sip through outside of the bottom plate.

any helps!!!
 
  #6  
Old 07-28-20, 06:21 PM
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Why do I see a speck of light shining through on the inside the drain in your first post, bottom picture?
 
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Old 07-29-20, 06:00 AM
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@XSleeper,

That is some light reflection from the top.

Thank you
 
  #8  
Old 07-29-20, 06:51 AM
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Then give plumbers putty a shot.

I would have someone up top to hold the fitting so it does not turn when you are tightening the nut.
 
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Old 07-29-20, 08:01 AM
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Hello all,

I think I might find the culprit of my issues.

If you look at the picture below, you will see the bottom drain pipe is not centered. So when I install the top part of the 825 series, it doesn't sit well with the rubber gasket and friction washer and that might cause the leakage.

I assume when the house was built, the installer installed the shower drain first to the bottom of the shower pan. Later, he connected the bottom drain pipe to the bottom part of the 825 series by glue it on. During the procedure, the pipe is not perfectly aligned to the shower drain. Now, if I remove the top part of 825 series from the top and reinstall the part back, the pipe will no longer align to the hole perfectly.

I have to bend the bottom of the pipe to reinstall and I assume pvc pipe can handle a little bending w/o problems.

Does anyone have similar experience before? Please share your comments.

Thank you





 
  #10  
Old 07-29-20, 08:05 AM
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@manden,

The bottom fitting has been glued to pipe, so it will not turn when I tighten the top part of 825 series.

Thank you
 
  #11  
Old 07-29-20, 02:23 PM
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It's not centered because the hole in your shower pan is not centered in the depression in the shower pan. There isnt anything you can do about that.

Pretty sure you just need to tighten the nut more and as mentioned, have someone up top holding the spud so it doesnt turn while you are tightening.
 
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Old 07-29-20, 07:38 PM
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@XSleeper,

> Pretty sure you just need to tighten the nut more and as mentioned, have someone up top holding the spud so it doesnt turn while you are tightening.

I am not quite sure about what you meant here.

The base part of the 825 series is glued on 2" PVC underlying the shower pan. When I turn the top part of 825 series, why I need another person to help hold the bottom part? I might misunderstand what you mean here.

One of youtube links in my OP is wrong.
I followed the following https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QgX...ature=emb_logo
My shower drain is the same as the above one.

Thank you
 
  #13  
Old 07-29-20, 08:10 PM
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Your instructions read:

From underneath the shower, place the black rubber sealing washer, then friction
washer then bottom portion over the male threads, and tighten. The friction washer
protects the rubber from damage while the bottom portion is threaded on and
tightened up.

So I'm assuming you would loosen the trap under your shower so that you could tighten the fitting from underneath. You say it's all glued, well I would cut it and use one of these for your trap so that it would act as a union and it could be disconnected when needed. When you do this you often need someone on top to prevent the basket from spinning as you tighten the hub from underneath. The guy in the video did it all from the top and was whacking it with a screwdriver to tighten it. Not a great way to tighten it, but it might be a good way to knock those ears right off the basket.

If you arent tightening it from underneath I doubt you are getting it as tight as it should be.
 
  #14  
Old 07-29-20, 08:30 PM
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@XSleeper,
As shown in this video, I tighten the nut from top of the shower pan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QgX...ature=emb_logo

Thank you
 
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Old 07-29-20, 08:42 PM
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I know. That's not the directions and not a good way to tighten it.
 
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Old 07-30-20, 07:53 AM
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Hello XSleeper,

Still leaks! I installed it with half turn and it might not be tightened enough.

I will do one more time before I give up.

One more question:

Is there a pcv fitting that has double side threads?
The one you showed me only has one thread in one of the end while the other end is glued on.


Any
 
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Old 07-30-20, 08:02 AM
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I believe it. That's because you are not tightening it enough.

No, if you want to be able to unscrew the trap you would need to glue on male and female thread adapters onto the left side of the trap. That way you could disconnect the trap and then loosen the left side. Assuming there will be enough room for it to spin around and make full revolutions as you unscrew it.
 
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Old 07-30-20, 08:44 AM
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@XSleeper,

I think your original proposal is the best way to handle this issue.

Here are my two options:

Option 1> reinstall the shower drain again and make sure the pipe is centered and make the fitting very tight.

Or

Option 2> replace the P trap with the style you suggested.

challenge 1> How do I cut pipe within such a small place?

challenge 2> when I remove the right-side of the p-trap, how I can make sure the horizontal 2" pipe is not shortened.

because if I directly cut the horizontal pipe, then I will not be able to align it correctly.

Option 3> can I remove the friction seal and use two rubber seals?

I really appreciate your help!

Thank you


 
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Old 07-30-20, 10:22 AM
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Talking

You will need to buy a little 2" pipe as well. Most places sell it in shorter 2ft and 5ft lengths in addition to full 10s.

Hook up your Sioux drain first. The flange determines where it goes since it drops into that indentation and self centers as you tighten it down from below. We are suggesting that you may need someone on top to hold the basket to prevent it from turning as you tighten it from below. (These drains are usually installed into the pan by the plumber before the pan is even set down on the floor.)

Then glue in your vertical pipe... Put a male threaded hub fitting on the end of it, then a female street adapter gets glued into the left side of the trap.

The horizontal 2" pipe on the right side of the trap can be cut back as far as you like. Because you will glue a coupling onto the cut end of that pipe. Then screw the right half of the trap onto the left side of the trap and measure how much pipe you need to cut between the 2 hubs... The hub on the right and of your trap to the inside stop on your coupling.

Once you know how much pipe you need, unscrew the right side of the trap and glue that length of pipe into the trap hub. Then once that is assembled you will glue that combined piece into the coupling... And screw the trap union together.

If you have tight quarters and need to cut the pipe, you can use a hacksaw or if that's too tight they make compact handsets that aren't much more than a blade and small handle. Or if you want to use a power tool, an oscillating multitool would work well.
 
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Old 07-30-20, 12:16 PM
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@XSleeper,

Thank you for your feedback. I have drawn some blueprint based on your suggestion. However, this will be my last resort since the work involved is beyond what I can do Currently, I am working on a different method and will report back if it works.

Thank you!


 
  #21  
Old 07-30-20, 12:49 PM
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Well the trap is correct, the others are not.
 
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Old 07-30-20, 12:57 PM
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After you have attached the Sioux drain... you would glue new pipe coming down from the drain, and glue this on the end.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-2-...4HD2/100348351

Then you would screw on this, along with a little TFE paste.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/2-in-PVC...2HD2/100677984

then you would glue it into the the left side of your trap.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-2-...5HD2/100342771

On the horizontal pipe , to the right of where you cut off the old glued on trap, you would glue on a coupling.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-2-...1HD2/100342704

Then measure the distance from the trap hub (as measured from inside the hub) to stop inside the middle of the coupling. Cut a piece of 2" pipe that length. Unscrew the trap union and take the right side of the trap and glue it onto the piece of 2" pvc that you cut. Then glue the other end of that 2" pvc into the coupling and screw the trap together at the union.

Assemble everything and dry fit it first before you start gluing.
 
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  #23  
Old 07-30-20, 01:50 PM
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Hello XSleeper,

My friend just came and he applied a bead of TFE Paste with Telfon on the internal wall of the 825 series. he said that it will block all water sipping through the thread. Not sure how long it can hold but it looks it might work.

Thank you



 

Last edited by q0987; 07-30-20 at 02:24 PM.
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