Rough in shower valve code


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Old 10-11-22, 11:04 AM
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Angry Rough in shower valve code

Can a Huntington Brass Shower Valve using Pex be installed without securing the valve to something behind the wall? What is the code? Manufacturer instructions says go by national and local building codes??
The valve is loose behind the wall and no way to get at it?? See Pic below.


 
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Old 10-11-22, 01:47 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

That doesn't look correct.
Most shower valves need to be attached from the back.
Can you post a model number for us ?
 
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Old 10-12-22, 12:33 AM
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See the ears on the valve, they are intended to be securely mounted to typ a 2x4 that runs between the studs at a given depth to accommodate the shower handle that will be installed.

Without the support the valve is just hanging there, more so because you used PEX and there is no way the handle set can be installed.

Going to have to open up the wall and secure.




 
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Old 10-12-22, 09:02 AM
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The Huntington Brass valves that I found all say "Four anchor points for face plate installation and blocking to secure valve in wall."
This is what I found out.
1) HUD rule is, install as per Manufacturer specs and "As a reminder, access must be provided in accordance with an approved design that will facilitate setting and adjustment of the devices as well as provide for ongoing maintenance in accordance with product manufacturer instructions.
2) The manufacturer says "We are the valve manufacturer, so, we only recommend installation for the valve to function properly and the depth of the valve to the finish wall.
We don't recommend anything past that, it's up to the plumber to install the valve properly with all national
and local building codes."
3)Local inspector said go by HUD rules. I don't seem to be able to get a definite answer. What is code?

The valve I show is installed in a 6 yr. old Manufactured Home and when I take off the face plate it falls down as in my picture, the pic that Marq1 posted looks like my valve. a plumber told me to service it he would have to cut a hole behind the valve and secure the valve so it can be serviced which agrees with what Pjmax posted.
If it is installed wrong I might be able to get the work done for free, but I need know what is the code?
 
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Old 10-12-22, 09:47 AM
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The Huntington Brass valves that I found all say "Four anchor points for face plate installation and blocking to secure valve in wall."
Every valve I have installed came with very detailed instructions on mounting from the manufacturer!
 
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Old 10-12-22, 09:54 AM
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blocking to secure valve in wall
​​​​​​​Obviously that valve is not secured to any blocking in the wall, if there is even any there.
 
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Old 10-12-22, 11:08 AM
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Code and mfg's installation instructions should have been followed. See UPC 313.1 and table 313.3 https://up.codes/s/hangers-and-supports

Example of mfg's instructions:

https://www.huntingtonbrass.com/pub/...01_INSTALL.pdf
 
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Old 10-12-22, 11:20 AM
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Thanks to everyone,
I agree the valve is not secured to anything, and as far as I know it's wrong, so someone didn't do their job which put me in this position which could cost me and many others seniors who bought this type of home.
Does anyone know what the "all national and local building codes" mean???
 
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Old 10-13-22, 05:54 AM
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Thanks, Xsleeper,
You have to forgive me I'm 80 yrs old and I have trouble understanding how to connect the dots using the UPC 313.1 & 313.3 to my problem. I had already found the link to Huntington Brass but it's not the valve I have and the local Inspector is not being helpful. I need something that I can bring to him and the home Manufactuer that will show them that the valve in not installed right. I really don't want to pay the money to put it right if I can show them their wrong. If you go back to post #4 you will see the runaround I've been getting. I live in MA 02346.
 

Last edited by CharlieR; 10-13-22 at 06:05 AM. Reason: add my location
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Old 10-13-22, 06:28 AM
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Your instructions for your valve (for every valve) say the valve must be "mounted", meaning fixed in place. The UPC links agree with that, and 313.1 also points to that by saying (in addition to following local codes) that the mfg's instructions need to be followed. 313.3 is a table that tells how often different types of pipe need to be supported. That also means the pex inside the wall needs to be fastened to the framing every so often. (For vertical pipe, that means at the base of the wall and middle of the wall. ) I doubt a plumbing inspector would miss that... if it was ever inspected (which we also don't know).

We can't tell you what valve you have so if you want specific instructions to show the inspector, we need a brand and model number for the valve.

However, inspectors aren't helpful, so that's the problem. And they are never wrong, so you are probably barking up the wrong tree. They aren't going to admit any blame and they aren't going to go to bat for you. The most you could do (if it was inspected) is complain to his superior that he missed something that is costing you money. Which will probably also get no results.

If this is a new home and it's under a year old you should have a warranty from the builder. If you had a plumber working for you, and they are responsible for this, call them back to fix it. Call them every day until you get results. Or call the better business bureau. This is a DIY site so we aren't much help with people's disputes with professionals that were hired to do a job.

But we don't know the whole story so we can't place blame. For all we know, it was installed correctly by the plumber, then whoever installed the shower drilled the hole in a different place and yanked it loose it to pull it over to the new location, then didn't reattach it. We have no way of knowing.

Pex is usually attached by snapping it into snug fitting brackets. Those brackets are screwed to a piece of horizontal blocking. They might be there and it has just come off. No way for us (or the inspector) to know.
 
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Old 10-13-22, 06:44 AM
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XS provided the link, the instructions show how it should be installed!


 
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Old 10-13-22, 08:08 AM
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Again THANKS to everyone,
This is the Valve Info I received from Huntington Brass P0123199, P0123199-4 and P1023199, these shower valve all uses ST6000 Cartridge which they sent me to repair my valves, that is where my trouble started because the valve is loose I couldn't replace the Cartridge and the plumber said I had to have the wall cut open and secured it.
I assume that P0123199-4 is mine the because of the Pex connections. They have a lot of valve model numbers ending with 199 the style just varies a little.

https://www.huntingtonbrass.com/cata...lt/?q=P0123199

https://www.huntingtonbrass.com/pub/...00_INSTALL.pdf


Remember Manufactured homes are built under HUD Rules and Regulations and that is why I'm getting the runaround. No one wants to deal with HUD. This is all GREAT information, and I hope it will help.
 
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Old 10-13-22, 09:29 AM
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No one wants to deal with HUD.
Why would anybody need to deal with HUD. If they had jurisdiction it was at time of build, your just doing a post repair and that has nothing to do with them.

HUD rule is, install as per Manufacturer specs
It just needs to be installed as the manufacture recommends, as the link shows, and your done!

I'm not sure where the confusion is, whoever installed that needs to fix it.
 
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Old 10-13-22, 10:32 AM
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"Four anchor points for face plate installation and blocking to secure valve in wall."
The manufacturer has made it quite clear what needs to be done.
The HUD people know it was installed incorrectly.
Trying to get them to do something is where the problem lies.
No one is in a hurry to step up and offer any help.


 
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Old 10-14-22, 07:34 AM
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First off, this is relatively a simple repair. And yes, it will cost, but it can be fixed.
The problem you face is who will do it and who will pay for it! If you want to go through the trouble and expense (and risk of losing), you can take legal action against the builder, the inspector, former owner, and anybody connected to the house. Is it worth it? No!

If this is a common problem in other manufactured homes in your area, it could be class action suit. But most likely not. I think you just happen to have a mistake during manufacturing.

Is this on an outside wall (I hope not)? Is it accessible from the opposite side of the wall? Call a handyman in your area and pay about $100 or so to get it fixed.
 
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Old 10-14-22, 11:09 AM
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Norm201,
I have 3 bad shower valves and I received a estimate of $1000.00 plus whatever it cost to repair and paint the walls and then one backs up to cabinet which would have to be repaired, who knows what that will cost. If they are installed wrong I can ask for help from HUD. My home is already being looked at by HUD because of other issues so I am hoping that I can prove to them it wrong and they will get it taken care of for me. That is why the big hunt for proof it's wrong. Thanks
 
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Old 10-14-22, 11:21 AM
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You don't need proof that's it's wrong. It is wrong. No proof is necessary. What you want is proof as to who installed it wrong. If all HUD needs is that they are installed wrong, then you already have it per pictures and on-site inspection. There is no question that they are installed wrong. They must be attached to some kind of structure to hold them in place and that would be code to any place in the US or Canada and required by the manufacturer.
I'm not familiar with HUD rules and regulations, but do you have a mortgage and insurance? If so, the bank and insurance company would be very interested to know that they are backing a home with inferior and not to code plumbing and/or other problems.
 
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Old 10-15-22, 07:53 AM
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Norm201,
I bought the house NEW, it's a 2017 model and I'm pretty sure the showers were installed at the factory in PA and sold to me by a MA Dealer. I have put in a request to both, the dealer said call the Manufacturer, which I did and received no reply. I just sent a request to HUD for help. Hoping for the best, I will let you know how it works out.
Thanks to everyone for their help and support.
 
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Old 10-15-22, 08:06 AM
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I would be a bit more forceful. Send a letter (certified mail) to the manufacturer with pictures and copy the dealer, explaining everything. And also mention the fact that you are advising HUD, your insurance and the bank (if you have a mortgage) of the defective workmanship. Insist that you expect a reply within 10 business days and that you will be reporting this to the state attorney general's office.
You might also call your local TV investigative reporter if you don't receive a reply or a negative response.
If all else fails threaten to take the manufacture and the dealer to small claims court or a possible class action suit against both.
 
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Old 11-03-22, 02:43 PM
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called the town inspector and I was told there is no code in MA about securing the valve inside the wall only securing the Pex pipe.
I had a plumber come in and he tighten the screws on the face plate and removed the valve cartridge and replaced it, although It did put a dent in the face plate, so you tell me????
 
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Old 11-03-22, 05:00 PM
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Well, at this point I'd say drop it. Chaulk it up to la life lesson learned and move on.
 
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