Is this shower working correctly?


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Old 02-16-23, 08:39 PM
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Is this shower working correctly?

Old, maybe 30 year old, Symmons temptrol.
tub and shower.
I just figured out how to replace the shower/tub diverter spindle.
it works, but the pressure from the shower seems low and there seems to be an excessive amount of water coming from the tub spout while shower is on.
i tried moving the shower/tub diverter spindle with the handle removed, so i could turn it about twice as far it is supposed to turn. Didn't help, so I know I dont have the diverter spindle in upside down.
can someone watch this video I made of the shower running and tell me if there is something else I need to replace or adjust?
thank you.
https://youtu.be/dJRhs3B5Tw4
 
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Old 02-16-23, 11:41 PM
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There are lost of video's and kits for rebuilding the valve assembly, have you done that?

https://www.symmons.com/products/tem...86-2-ips-body/
 
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Old 02-17-23, 08:01 AM
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It would be helpful to see the position of the diverter handle and how the flow changes as the diverter handle is moved. Mine is tub when handle is to the left, center off (very slight drip--not stream like yours), and shower to the right (if any drip, even smaller.)
 
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Old 02-18-23, 07:49 AM
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In my video the diverter is all the way to the right for shower.
the only difference moving the diverter from far right to far left is the tub spout shuts off.

I didn't find any videos at that link.
I have watched many youtube videos.
haven't found one yet that addresses my problem.

I replaced everything except the hot and cold seats, could worn out seats cause my problem?
 
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Old 02-18-23, 10:13 AM
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I don’t understand how you confirmed that the cartridge was oriented properly by turning multiple turns without the handle. But these days there is a lot I don’t seem to understand – lol. But my bet would be the cartridge orientation is wrong. Isn’t there a mark or stop or something on the cartridge so you could try two different orientations?
 
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Old 02-18-23, 10:34 AM
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Here is a link to my thread. Post #3 shows the diverter core. The brass piece fits into the recess at the right end.

moving the diverter from far right to far left is the tub spout shuts off
The center position should be off (handle down with a slight dribble--not a stream--from the spout) so it seems that you need to adjust the position of the core for that. Then the tub should be to the left and the shower to the right. The brass piece limits the amount the core will move in either direction. That should help in determining the correct orientation of the core. The square part of the handle that inserts into the core allows for adjustments in 90 degree increments.
 
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Old 02-18-23, 12:14 PM
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The faceplate, the trim, whatever they call the piece the diverter handle is cipped onto, is off the shower. The diverter handle is out of that faceplate/trim piece. The diverter handle is in the diverter spindle.
so, I am turning the shower on and off with the diverter handle. But, it doesn't have the stop in the faceplate/trim so i can turn it almost 360 degrees. It stops when the diverter handle hits the water on/off, temperature adjustment handle.
I can tell , or at least I think I can tell, the diverter spindle is in the correct postion because straight down is off .
I am assuming the handle fits only one way.
I can try turning the diverter spindle 180 degrees. But I think the diverter handle would then be pointing up and wouldn't clear the water on/off , temperature adjustment knob.
I just took a video of what the tub spout and shower does when I move the diverter handle.
maybe that will explain it better.
I will post it soon
 
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Old 02-18-23, 12:29 PM
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Here is the video.

https://youtu.be/OXHOug0gjHw
 
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Old 02-19-23, 07:12 AM
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It looks like you have the spindle and handle in the correct positions. Water is flowing to the tub when left, to the shower when right, and mostly off in the middle. The stream when down and right is more than expected. It should be a dribble, not a stream. (My valve is at my vacation home so I cannot post a video of how it works.) Remove the spindle and inspect the O rings to make sure that they are in place and not damaged. It could be that water is bypassing them. If you can, also determine if the inside surface of the housing that the spindle fits into is not gouged or rough. I do not think there is a seat for the diverter.

I do not think the diverter handle is "keyed'. It is a square shaft and should fit into the spindle even if it is turned 180 degrees from where you have it now. Use a small screwdriver to rotate the spindle to that position and then insert the handle to try it.
 
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Old 02-19-23, 07:43 AM
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I will pull the spindle out and check for damage.
I just checked, the diverter handle only fits one way. I tried moving the spindle 90 degrees right, then left , removed the diverter handle and tried to reinsert in a different postion. Would not insert. So, the diverter spindle is in the correct postion.
unless, maybe, it has two postions and I have to turn it 180 defrees. I can try that when I take it out for inspection.
 
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Old 02-20-23, 09:41 AM
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How To Replace A Symmons Shower/ Tub Spindle And Diverter - YouTube



Support - Symmons




How do I replace the diverter/volume spindle?
  1. Remove the diverter/volume control spindle by threading a 5/16″ lag screw into the center hole of the spindle (only a thread or two is needed) and pull the spindle out.
  2. Place the new “Christmas tree” insert (T-23E) into the new diverter/volume control spindle. Push the new diverter spindle into the valve using the diverter handle (T-30). Be sure to keep the handle pointed down to the 6:00 o’clock position to ensure proper alignment. When the diverter spindle is fully seated into the valve replace the diverter retainer (T-21C)


    I’m not sure but it looks to me that the “Christmas tree”T-23E they are talking about above, is what that guy is holding in the snapshot from the youtube video. If that’s the case and you kept the handle pointed down in the 6:00 o’clock position as directed above – I don’t see how the diverter would be inserted improperly.

    But … with that large flow you are getting from the tub spout, it really looks like no way that spindle is in the right orientation. A real puzzle!
     
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    Old 02-20-23, 10:36 AM
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    The Christmas tree goes on the outside end of the spindle. The handle slides through it into the diverter.
     
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    Old 02-20-23, 03:12 PM
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    The last few days I have moved the diverter handle back and forth from tub to shower quite a few times , trying to figure this out.
    today, when I took a shower, the flow from the tub spout is about half as much and the flow from the shower is about twice as much as it was.
    still a steady flow from the tub spout, but a lot better.
    maybe the housing the spindle sits in is damaged from hard water and the spindle kind of has to wear in, around the damaged part?
    moving the diverter handle repeatedly wears down the sections of spindle that hits a damaged part of the housing untill the spindle fits and seals.
    best guess I got.
    there is enough water to take a shower now so I'm just going to leave it alone and live with it like it is.
    unless someone comes along that has seen this before and knows what is wrong.
     
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    Old 02-20-23, 06:29 PM
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    If the inside is rough it will wear down the O ring. Saw in the video that he cleaned inside with wire brush. Probably a good idea. O ring is replaceable if necessary.
     
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    Old 02-22-23, 12:52 PM
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    Is there any way that is the wrong spindle? I was just wondering if it would be possible to insert a wrong spindle into the valve - and thus never being able to turn it properly to get the proper action.

    Or maybe that's just impossible. I was just wondering because sometimes long part numbers are almost identical. Just a thought.
     
     

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