Vile Tiles over Ceramic Tile


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Old 12-12-06, 11:10 AM
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Vile Tiles over Ceramic Tile

Hello,

I posted a few days ago about putting vinyl tiles over concrete. After I removed the linoleum and backing I discovered that I have nice vintage tile underneath. I wanted to save the tile as it is in great condition, however I cannot get the remaining 2-3% of the adhesive off (chewing gum consistency), so I will have to install the vinyl tiles.

There is still some adhesive that I could not get off, would I be ok simply using Henry 430 adhesive and laying the tiles or should I go another route?

Thanks...
 
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Old 12-12-06, 05:17 PM
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What consistency and color is the remaining adhesive and what are the vintage tiles? Ceramic tile or the old asbestos vinyl tiles? In either case, unless the floor prep was done well, I'm surprised the pattern of the tile underneath didn't telegraph up through the sheet vinyl you just removed, or did it? You said something about "chewing gum" consistency to the remaining glue. That sounds like either clear thin spread for VCT or the sheet vinyl hadn't been down long enough for it's glue to dry out. Trapped between two impervious layers, it would stay sticky for a surprising length of time. If there isn't much of it to deal with, I know it sounds bad, but charcoal lighter fluid works great on glue that's still sticky. It even takes long dried out tape residue off. Clean it off with that and then clean the surface to get the oily residue off. You really want to start with a clean surface for a good bond. Is the Henry's 430 a clear thin spread? If not, take it back and get the right stuff for vinyl tile.
 
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Old 12-12-06, 06:22 PM
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The vintage tile is ceramic (1x1) squares. The remaining adhesive is a grayish-black color. There was sheet linoleum on top of the ceramic tiles. The adhesive that is left is mostly in the grout lines. I have been using chemicals to strip off the adhesive, but I think I have gotten as much as I'm going to get. I really had wanted to save the tile, but it does not look like that will happen. The Henry 430 is a clear thin spread. Do you think it would work out if I leave the remaining adhesive and laid the tiles?

Thanks...
 
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Old 12-12-06, 06:48 PM
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I really can't say definitively one way or another. Doing this stuff for a living, I don't have the option of leaving stuff like that. When I start cleaning, I don't quit till it's done for warranty reasons. I have to warranty my work so I need to do it in a warrantable manner. I will say, however, if it were my own house, I'd take the chance and do it. That kind of glue is very different from multipurpose adhesives used for carpet or sheet vinyl. If any issue were to arise over something not sticking, it's just one tile at a time instead of the whole floor to replace because of one area that may have turned loose. I am assuming you do know how to use this kind of glue.
 
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Old 12-12-06, 07:42 PM
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Well, the instructions for the adhesive seem simple. I am using the peel and stick tiles but because of the condition of the floor I thought it would be good to use the adhesive as a reinforcement. The one question I do have is do I apply the adhesive as I go or do I apply the adhesive to the entire floor?

Since you do this for a living do you have any tips (beyond what you have already shared) for salvaging tile that has been gone over with linoleum?

Thanks for all your help, I do appreciate the help from a pro!
 
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Old 12-12-06, 09:50 PM
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I've actually never run into a situation like you describe with vinyl over ceramic tile. It makes me wonder if you actually had vinyl or no kidding linoleum which are two very different things. Normally, the tile would have been removed or some sort of other surface such as plywood or concrete slab put down over it before applying sheet vinyl. But that's another story. As far as the adhesive is concerned, I'm no fan of peel and stick vinyl tiles and you're probably well advised to reinforce the adhesion of them. Do your layout and pop your control lines in such a way as to allow you to reach the "X" where they intersect without getting on the glue. I can explain what I mean if you don't already have a plan in mind. Then spread as much of the floor as you think you'll get done in the day. If you think it's a one day or shorter job, spread the whole thing. If doors or windows allow, start spreading at the intersection of your control lines and spread to where you intend to finish, provided this won't paint you into a corner. The idea is to let your starting point begin setting up as you're spreading the rest. That way, when the starting point is ready you can get started even if the rest isn't ready yet. It will keep drying and will most likely be ready by the time you get there. Be sure you're very meticulous about spreading it evenly leaving no blobs, puddles, or heavy ridges. The thinner areas will dry where these will not and you'll have a mess when you get to them. The glue will go down a creamy yellowish color and you won't be able to see your control lines through it. As it dries, it will become clear and the control lines will be visible. It will also get very sticky and that's when you start installing. Vinyl tiles, your shoes, the cat if it tries to walk through it, will all stick tight so make very sure you use the control lines as a guide and get the first few exactly where they go because the tiles will be very difficult to remove later if you make a mistake. A fraction of an inch off at the starting point can translate to inches by the time it's over. This is why you need the apex of the control lines positioned so you can reach it without getting on the glue.
 
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Old 12-13-06, 06:56 AM
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Thanks for the detailed response. The tiles are 12x12, the room is a narrow bathroom (4x9). I had planned on snapping a line 12" out and parallel to a long wall and then snapping another line perpendicular to that line at the center point of the room.

Does that sound like it will work? Also, how soon after a tile is installed can it be walked on?

Thanks...
 
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Old 12-13-06, 07:23 AM
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You're on the right track with your control lines with one modification. The purpose of snapping two lines is to start off from the apex of the two lines. Assuming the two lines are exactly 90 degrees of each other, this gets the starting point nice and square. Trust me, once you actually see the glue ready to stick tiles to, you'll understand. Getting on it is a bad plan. Popping the second line in the center doesn't allow you to reach the apex of the lines with out getting on the glue unless that apex is near a door. If it's in a place you can reach without getting on the glue, continue to march as planned. If not, move the second line toward the door until it is near or within reach of the door and then pop it. One thing I've done in the past. You could dispense with the second line altogether. In such a small room, the first line will get you going straight and there isn't enough floor space to get too far off provided your first line is accurate. Vinyl tiles are normally very accurately cut in so far as square is concerned and, by being careful to follow the line, it should work fine. You could start in the door with a full tile and do your cuts at the far end. Make sure you butt the tiles together tightly as you work because you can't adjust once they're in the glue.
 
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Old 12-13-06, 07:26 AM
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Sorry, I forgot an answer. The stuff is ready for traffic as soon as it's applied to the glue. stay on the material as you work. When you're finished you'll need to roll it and follow the instructions for any sealing that may need done.
 
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Old 12-13-06, 09:43 AM
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Last question, I promise.

Will the fact that I have used solvent strippers cause the adhesive not to work properly? I have mopped the area and it is dry and clear of any residue.

Thanks...
 
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Old 12-13-06, 03:17 PM
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So long as there are indeed no remaining residues and the floor is clean, you should be OK. One more question from me, how are the grout joints in the tile handled? Have they been filled in sufficiently to eliminate any low spots? If the floor isn't flat and smooth, the vinyl tiles may crack as traffic pushes them down into the grout joints below them.
 
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Old 12-13-06, 05:10 PM
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Actually I will probably have to get some kind of leveler as I went ahead and bought another can of the adhesive stripper and removed ALL of the adhesive.

Turns out I was not scrubbing hard enough.

Thanks...
 

Last edited by errodr; 12-13-06 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Clarify Response
  #13  
Old 12-14-06, 03:27 AM
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Sounds like the worst is behind you. The grout joints are still bothering me a bit. I've never glued vinyl tiles to ceramic tiles and I'm concerned about how well any leveling compound will adhere. I'm confident it will stick to the grout, but not so sure about the glazed surface of the tiles. Are the tiles shiny or dull in appearance? Those small tiles are mosaics and come either way. If the surface is shiny, it may be difficult to get the leveler to stick to it and you'll want to make sure the shiny surface is clean before gluing. If not, you'll be glued to a thin layer of leveler that will detach from the tile with traffic. Since you're using vinyl tiles, it may not be an issue because they'll still be glued to the grout joints, but I'm not sure. In any case, enjoy your project.
 
 

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