Underlayment question

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  #1  
Old 09-19-07, 11:03 AM
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Underlayment question

I'm installing some Nafco luxury vinyl tile in my kitchen and dining room. I removed carpet from the dining room and a newer layer of vinyl from the kitchen (along with the underlayment from the kitchen vinyl). I'm now left with smooth sheet vinyl across both rooms. I have a few questions regarding the underlayment.


I've seen three types of underlayment advocated quite strongly by one of the moderators here (Sureply, Multiply and Halex) but I have not been able to find any of the products at home depot or lowes. Where should I look for these and what kind of prices am I looking at for them?

My existing vinyl is not in the greatest condition. Its primarily just curling up at most of the seams (middle seams and at the walls). It also has a few areas where there are 3/4" gaps between the vinyl and the wall. can I lay underlayment on top of these defects or do I need to pull up the old vinyl and just put the underlayment on top of the subfloor?

Should I put the new flooring under the dishwasher?

The Tarkett instructions doesn't specify what kind of fasteners to use when attaching a plywood underlayment to a plywood subfloor although it does say to use ring shank nails for attaching the subfloor to the joists. What kind of fastener is recommended and should I use some adhesive as well or just stick with fasteners?

Those are my questions for now.
 
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Old 09-19-07, 01:56 PM
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approximate prices on Sureply, Multi-ply and Halex might be nice. I spent over 2 hours on the phone looking for Halex only to find out that it will cost me $29 for each 4'x5' sheet.

The distributor quoted me about $21 a sheet at their prices but they only sell by the palatte.

I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't get go with a regular 3/8 inch birch plywood for a whole lot less money.
 
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Old 09-19-07, 10:59 PM
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Multiply is my personal favorite. The last time I bought some it cost around twenty bucks a sheet. In order to understand what I'll say next, lets explain the reasoning behind using an approved underlayment. These materials are typically a quarter inch thick, have one very smooth side with no defects, the body is constructed in such a way as to not be as offended by moisture, and they have no voids between the layers. Quarter inch plywood gets all offended by moisture and has voids between the layers. When glue dries, it shrinks. I've seen quarter inch plywood actually pulled apart under the stress because of the voids. Also, as the glue begins to shrink, it will draw the vinyl down into every little imperfection, to include the grain of the wood in plywood. It doesn't matter how much sand and patch you use on it, if the grade of plywood used is not the very best, the grain pattern will telegraph to the surface of the vinyl. All of this, however, applies to full spread, felt backed, sheet vinyl. The material you plan to use is much thicker, uses a different glue, and does not have some of the install issues associated with full spread sheet vinyl. So long as the subfloor under the vinyl you will be removing is in good shape, and provided you can get it smooth, if it were my house, I'd dispense with the underlayment. This isn't exactly kosher, but it's what I would do. Since the material is thicker and tougher, the things under it have to be pretty bad for them to show through to the surface of the new material. Wood grain alone will not telegraph through. So long as the floor being adhered to is flat and smooth, the material will look good and adhere well. Unless the stuff you're using is different than I think it is, the glue is a clear thin spread, which acts differently than the multipurpose glues. This glue has to be allowed to dry before installation so most of it's shrinking is already done by the time the material is applied. You'll probably get some dissenting opinions, but I've done this on many jobs where I have to stand behind it if it fails and, to date, none have failed. Additionally, if the existing vinyl is well adhered, you can cut out the problem areas, patch with a good floor patch, level with embossing leveler, and glue straight to the existing vinyl.
 
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Old 09-21-07, 09:25 AM
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thanks for the comments. I ended up picking up Multi-ply from Lowes for $12 per half sheet. I bought 18 sheets.

Multi-ply has alot of thorough instructions which appears to be very helpful.
 
 

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