What grout for 1X1 self stick vinyl tile 'seam'?


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Old 08-04-10, 06:19 PM
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What grout for 1X1 self stick vinyl tile 'seam'?

Folks, what grout should I use with self stick vinyl tile for the 'seam'? In other words it's a 1'X1' self stick tile but I'd like to space them 1/4" or 3/8" and grout the seam for a ceramic tile look.

I'm using Shaw Industries Traffic Master Ceramica tiles (Home Depot), which surprisingly look like ceramic tiles. They are going to be laid on top of an existing vinyl sheet, that while horrendously out of style, is still in very good shape.

My house was built 25 years ago and was not engineered specifically for ceramic/slate/marble flooring. So the floor system is 2X10s on 16" centers. It's 3/4" in T&G plywood and I think the underlayment is 5mm - 1/4". Flks have told me my floor system isn't acceptable for a heavy marble/ ceramic/slate floor, ergo the vinyl tiles with grout. My basement is finished so I'm not eager to tear up the ceiling to add additional joists.

I know that my floor has just a tad of give. You can feel it when you are seated and someone walks by in the kitchen.

So.... given my situation what grout should I use that would have some flexibility? Beer 4U2

Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 08-04-10, 08:57 PM
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I know of no grout that you can use with peel and stick tiles.
 
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Old 08-05-10, 04:09 AM
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I looked on the site, and this is a resilient tile, which means to me it is glued down using an adhesive. The ad does say you can leave grout line space or butt them to each other. Learn something every day. With all the trouble to lay the thin tile, darned if I wouldn't go with a good ceramic tile. I am just not sure how well a grout line will hold up between these tiles. No experience with them at all.
 
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Old 08-05-10, 05:46 AM
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You are right, you would need a lot of work on the floor for ceramic. Ask HD about using a grout with these or find the tech number on line. I personally don't think grouting these will work. I think you will just end up with a mess.
 
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Old 08-05-10, 06:36 AM
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Grout is only used for the seam ...

Folks, this is a new 'style' of flooring. Think of it as a hybrid. The tile is laid down using the self stick of the tile. A space is left for a grout line. You use a grout bag to lay a line of grout down the seam. You use a putty knife to flatten the grout seam, let is partially dry, and wipe with a grout sponge. (In other words you don't completely grout OVER the entire tile, just the seam.

HD was recommending what looked to me as a regular grout. I was surprised it was not a sanded, acrylic grout, but plain old regular grout used with regular ceramic tiles. This is more like cement (which I believe grout is) and probably doesn't have ANY give.

Ergo for the grout line what can I use??? (folks should I post over on the tile forum???

Thanks, Dave K.
 
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Old 08-05-10, 08:27 AM
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Can I ask why you'd use grout with peel and stick tiles? To each his own, of course. But what is the point? Why not just pick up some cheap ceramic tiles? I see them on closeouts all the time for like 50-cents a foot.
 
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Old 08-05-10, 09:34 AM
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why not "real" ceramic?

The answer is ...

1. The floor was not engineered for ceramic/ marble/ slate. The floor joists are 2X10s on 16" centers with 3/4" T&G plywood and underlayment, but the span is 14 feet. In the 'old' days the joists would have been 2x12s or if 2x10s were used they would be on 1' centers for a heavy floor (or so I've been told).

2. this homeowner/dyi is very reluctant to pull up the old vinyl floor and/or pull up the old vinyl flooring AND underlayment and install new underlayment. For the latter I'm thinking I'd be pulling out the kitchen island, the kitchen cabinets, the bathroom vanity, etc.

3. this homeowner/dyi is very reluctant to have to deal with 1/2"+ material, cutting all the door mouldings, and perhaps having to remove then put up new base moulding.

4. THIS (FORUM) is for vinyl and linoleum ergo the questions on how one might install then grout self stick vinyl flooring.

This floor 'type' is apparently pretty new, say maybe circa early 2000s. There were apparently some problems with this type of floor early on and the industry contracted but now seems to be exploding with more and more ceramic like products being offered, self stick, that are groutable. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon and understand that while I'm not exactly bleeding/cutting edge, this style of floor is still yet new and unproven.

BTW - I had a heck of time but found the manufacturer and yes, sanded acrylic grout is the ticket for this product. The bad news (for me) is that the grout spacing is just 1/8" and is NOT the spacing shown on Home Depot's display for this product.

I can understand people's (contractor's) reluctance with this style of flooring. It's unproven and it seems like flooring is something people expect perfection in. Ergo making a living installing flooring probably ain't all that easy given customer expectations for absolute perfection and that perfection to be maintained for an indefinite amount of time, under any circumstance, all while paying a minimum...


Cheers!
 
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Old 08-05-10, 10:11 AM
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Well stated. Your tone, as I read it, wasn't entirely friendly, but maybe that's because I'm just having a bad day.

Good luck with your project and, if it works out, provide pictures because this sounds like something that might work out in a basement.

Godspeed.
 
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Old 08-05-10, 10:30 AM
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If the floor has too much deflection for ceramic, won't the grout crack? Just asking.
 
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Old 08-05-10, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by diydavek View Post
...sanded acrylic grout is the ticket for this product. The bad news (for me) is that the grout spacing is just 1/8" and is NOT the spacing shown on Home Depot's display for this product.
Sounds like you'll need to compromise on the grouts spacing since that's what the sanded acrylic grout is limited to due to shrinkage. Over time and this much square footage, these limits do have merit.
You have a legitimate concern about HD's recommendation based on your familiarity with your own floor.

Perhaps you can choose a grout color that will work with this limit?
 
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Old 08-06-10, 06:34 AM
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the grout ....

Yep, I've sorta been had .... and what the manufacturer says dovetails with what you all are saying as regards having to limit grouting ....

The manufacturer (whose name I can't remember now) indicated that I needed to use an acrylic sanded grout. HD carries what they recommend. It's a latex acrylic sanded grout that's premixed. It's supposed to have some flexibility.

The trouble is (now), I bought $1K of tile based on the in- store display of the grouted, sample tile. The display showed a very nice 1/4" - 3/8" grout line. I saw that and went wow, looks fantastic. The manufacturer's customer service desk told me yesterday the recommended grout spacing is just 1/8".

1/8"!!!!! on a 1'X1' tile? Maybe if I was tiling a shower stall with 4"x4" tiles, but 1/8" grout for floor tile!!!!

Yikes. I'm not sure what to do now. The flooring was special ordered since it wasn't an in-store color and has been paid for!!!. I've spent the entire week (at night) pulling up the old self stick tile and am only a little more than 1/2 done. My knees are killing me. My legs are killing me. I'm tired, I'm cranky.

If I deviate from the 1/8" grout, I figure if there's problems, HD will say 1/8" was the limit and you exceeded it, ergo it's your problem. If I do 1/8" grout, what's the point of that and how would that look?

I'm beginning to hate flooring.

(and sorry on the tone of the previous post ... I too am tired from this job that's only just started).

I'm hoping the small amount of deflection I feel will be accommodated by the vinyl tile and acrylic grout. I'm figuring the vinyl should have SOME give for deflection. The acrylic grout is supposed to be flexible. That's my hope. Otherwise yes, I'd turn a "simple" flooring job (if it's possible to HAVE A *&&^% SIMPLE FLOORING JOB) into a major renovation by reinforcing the floor from below and putting in "real" ceramic flooring.

Did I say I'm really beginning to hate flooring.

I'm leaning towards doing the tile laying and grouting myself.... I didn't want to do this but the first estimate I got on the floor was well beyond my wildest dreams. Another guy I found is swamped until Spring (so much for the recession).

I'll try to take pics before and after.

Dave
 
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Old 08-06-10, 09:37 AM
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Vinyl has gotten expensive - we figured out it was cheaper to go with ceramic and have been slowly converting our units as the vinyl floors sustain damage
 
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Old 08-09-10, 09:23 AM
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Experience with sanded acrylic CAULK?

Folks, I've found sanded acrylic caulk from several companies (Hydroment and Tec). It's caulk in caulking tube, colored, sanded, water based (I'd think its a silicon/latex but has water cleanup). Apparently it's used for grouting kitchen and bath tile on walls and countertops, etc. It isn't specifically listed for flooring ...

Any ideas if if could be used on flooring to create the grout line with self stick tiles?

Thanks, Dave
 
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Old 08-09-10, 09:36 AM
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No..the sanded caulk is for use at corners and joints where regular grout is ill advised or inappropriate. I believe people may use it when just replacing 1 tile or a small amount of missing grout as well.
 
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Old 08-09-10, 11:32 AM
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drat!

Thanks, I sure was hoping sanded, acrylic/latex caulk would have been a solution. Darn, darn, darn. Hey they can put a man on the moon.....
 
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Old 08-09-10, 11:46 AM
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We can put a man on the moon, but no one can stop somebody from buying at a big box store that provides minimal (at best) knowledgeable information on the use and application of what they sell. A cardboard display is not much to rely on.
 
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Old 08-09-10, 03:28 PM
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In a big box, the guy selling flooring this week was selling lumber last week and will be in plumbing next week. I stopped in one looking for box of tack strip. The "flooring guy" didn't know what it was.
 
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Old 08-09-10, 03:46 PM
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I really think it's enough Box bashing. Granted they don't all get the greatest training....but there are plenty of folks working Box stores that spent years in the same industry and just decided a steady paycheck and benefits was a good choice. The only people that shift around like was mentioned are normally the part time people filling in for people who are sick or no shows. The philosophy was..."better someone with minimal knowledge..than no one at all".

Heck, I worked plumbing, electrical, and even the Service desk....why?...cause I had a brain in my skulll...and if I didn't know...I called someone who did.

Things may have changed, and of course every store is different. Heck, I don't trust Joe at the local hardware store until I've dealt with him a few times.

Right now...a paycheck is a big deal.

Sorry for the rant........no offense intended...I did have to correct problems caused by other workers...and I wasn't happy....but such is life.
 
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Old 08-10-10, 05:30 AM
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Final thoughts suggestions ... self-stick tiles?

That's basically the reason I searched and found this forum. The big box stores do carry the products. Sometimes I find the associates are very knowledgeable, sometimes they aren't; ergo why folk come here for a "2nd opinion".

As for big box stores, I searched high and low for a solution for my home that didn't require me to re-engineer my floor system and went to PLENTY of flooring stores asking for a solution. It was my experience in visiting the local flooring stores, that if you weren't interested in hiring them to do the labor, they weren't interested in your project. I also found, not surprisingly they weren't interested in solving my problem but were more interested in pushing whatever they thought was convenient for them to sell.

So, no the big box stores don't often have experts working in the departments; that's why folks like me, check here with experts like you all and/or folks with specific experience; to bump what we hear or have been told with "reality'.

That said, I've removed my old self-stick tiles. Most of the glue has been removed and I'm ready for my final cleaning (I posted another query but no one's responded so I guess I'm no my own for what to use as a final deep clean). But any suggestions/tricks for laying the self stick are greatly appreciated. I really would like this floor to go 15 years or more ....


Cheers! DaveK.
 
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Old 08-10-10, 06:02 AM
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Don't know why I didn't see your other post on the TSP...musta just skipped over it somehow.

TSP or a TSP substitute is available in the paint/chemicals section...don't think it would be carried in the flooring supplies. It's a powder thats mixed with warm water.

Its basically a strong detergent. Recommended for heavy cleaning and degreasing such as for cabinets before painting or stripping waxy buildup on linoleum and similar. It will require a good complete fresh water rinse afterwards.
 
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Old 08-21-10, 05:25 PM
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DaveK... How did your floor turn out? I just bought the same self-adhesive vinyl tiles and premixed grout from HD but have not installed them yet. I am planning on using them in my bathroom, but after reading various forums online I am concerned about future water damage. I am tempted to return the product and go for a full sheet of vinyl flooring rather than the tiles. Do you think the grout will help "waterproof" the tiles (or at least help them resist water)? I have also brushed on a self-stick tile primer to prep and seal the plywood to help with this.

I appreciate your feedback!
 
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Old 05-07-12, 07:51 AM
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Had these for 4 years

Hi,
I've had these in my 2 bathrooms for 4 years. My home was built in 1957 and sometimes I swear the whole thing was built out of scraps! There was no WAY I was getting the floors level enough to lay ceramic tiles and since I am a do it yourself-er, I didn't want to learn how to lay ceramic either. I'm also a girl and I didn't want to get into the weight, and the wet saws and all of that, so this seemed like a good solution for my situation. They were fairly new, I'd never heard anything about them and was a little weary despite my experience with the non-groutable self adhesive tiles.

That being said, I LOVE THESE TILES. It's FOUR YEARS LATER and I've had NO problems with them. I DID add some additional flooring adhesive applied with a trowel before laying these as I thought in a bathroom it would add strength to the 'stick' that may be needed due to humidity as well as an small additional water barrier to the plywood. I have an a son who has ranged from ages 7-11 since these have been in his bathroom. He doesn't like to dry off and I've found puddles of water daily in the bathroom. There is no old vinyl or anything under these, just subflooring. the grout is not cracked and it has shown no signes of leaking to the subflooring. no plywood bubble or weak spots. I also used a grout sealer, by the way and I haven't dealt with a single bit of mold or discoloration of the grout. I have nothing but raves for these tiles!

I am about to redo the kitchen and these tiles are going in!!! I can't wait! I am in NO WAY a professional. I am a 31 year old office manager. I am a girl. I did this alone. It's so easy, your kids could practically do it for you (but I don't recommend that lol)!!
 
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Old 01-13-13, 07:13 AM
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Ceramica

Thanks for the follow-up review of having the floor for 4 years. I am looking at installing it in my laundry room. Didn't want to do ceramic because of the hassle of cutting the tiles, getting under the hotwater heater and changing the floor level. I did read a review that indicated the corners on the tile didn't stick, but the extra adhesive for the base should solve that. I am also guessing that the person had not prepared the subflooring well enough that parts wouldn't stick.
 
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Old 02-03-13, 05:45 AM
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Question Would also like to know how this product is holding up?

Our toilet hose connection failed earlier this week and we are needing to select flooring quickly to get things restored. Our contractor is installing Congoleum Duraceramic tile in another house and suggested we look into it. I am not finding good reviews on that product. HD suggested the Ceramica product and I found mixed reviews but better that the Duraceramic. This will be for laundry room (LG washer/dryer on pedestals), powder room, and entryway from garage on main floor. Sub-flooring is being replaced due to water damage, my husband is thinking of using marine grade plywood for sub-floor. My LG washer has a tendency to vibrate during use and my concern is will this product tolerate that. The Duraceramic is being installed with an acrylic grout but the HD saleperson suggested an epoxy grout. I appreciate the post regarding 4 years of use but would like a few more opinions. If this works out, we will also be looking into doing the kitchen/dining and main entrance hallway in the future.

Thanks,
Karen
 
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Old 02-03-13, 11:08 AM
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Acish18, welcome to the forums! The reason your LG vibrates so much is the pedestal on which it is sitting. Take a really good look at the construction and you (if you are like me) will drop your jaw. There is very little substantive structure to it and it will rack causing the washer to vibrate more obviously than without one. My daughter had one and it sounded like a train coming through when it went to spin. We removed it from the pedestal and it is as smooth as silk, now. Just a consideration.

I have not had the experience with the newer "semi" ceramic products. I am of old school and just haven't had enough feedback from others on it. I certainly won't put my name on a job like that. Pure ceramic or porcelain tile installations are solid and will withstand much of the punishment you can deal out. Here again, just an observation.
 
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Old 11-01-13, 04:52 PM
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simple grout

hi i just layed the same floor using a product called simple grout all turned out great
 
 

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