Think I made a big oops

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Old 02-13-12, 09:14 PM
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Think I made a big oops

Well, sit back and enjoy this one. The neighbor and I have been remodeling my kitchen. The flooring is NOT looking very good!

Already have a 2 foot spot pulling up! I think I may have overdriven my staples too much into the 1/4" underlayment, or they were simply too short (3/4" staples).

They were used liberally, and the backing material was the old underlayment (3/4" MDF plywood). Denser than usual plywood, so the staples should have had sufficient holding power, at least for longer than a day!

Don't know what to do at this point. It was SOLID before the floor was laid. Have not resorted to a glue syringe yet but this does not bode well for the future, in any case.

Glue - Armstrong S-235. Dated 12/28/11. Is this manufactured date?

Floor covering from Lowes with a fibery paper backing (faux-noleum?) It was rolled with 100 lb roller after gluing.

Thinking of just starting over with something entirely different. Preferably something I could screw or nail over my mistake with confidence..
 
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Old 02-14-12, 12:09 AM
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Is the bubble in the vinyl or the underlayment? If it's in the vinyl, it can be salvaged by piercing it with a hypodermic needle and work the air out through the needle. If it's the underlayment, that isn't so easy to fix. If you don't mind sacrificing the vinyl, use deck or sheet rook screws, screw right through the vinyl and all and fasten the loose spots down. Then go over the whole thing with embossing leveler to get back to a smooth surface. At that point, you can apply a new layer over the "old" one. If you use a loose lay, fiberglass backed sheet vinyl, you might not need the embossing leveler because there is no glue to cause the screw holes and existing pattern to telegraph through.
 
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Old 02-14-12, 07:08 AM
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It's really hard to tell. One side of the room is perfect. The other side I found numerous spots where you could perceive subtle movement when pressure is applied.

The staples went into the underlayment consistently about 1/8" deep so I wonder if the top layer of underlayment curled up to relieve warpage once the glue wetted it?

Wonder if it would be worth punching a nail hole big enough to inject half an ounce of wood glue? It would anchor it down and hopefully take up the space void. What I need is a solid backup plan, cause once the cabinets are in they are not coming out.
 
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Old 02-14-12, 07:35 AM
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What you describe is normally one of two things, air bubbles under the vinyl or loose underlayment. If it's air, you should be able to press down with a finger in the center of the bubble and have it stay down for a bit. This will slightly compress the air so it will come back up, but will tell you what's going on. In that case, I get my needles from a vet's office. They're for injecting large animals so they have a larger gauge. If it's the underlayment, injecting glue under it will probably not help. It's like glue in the tube before it's used. It doesn't dry out because air doesn't get to it. The underlayment and vinyl act sort of like that tube and it would take a lot of time for that glue to actually hold, if it ever did. There is an additional factor to take into account with the glue under the underlayment idea. When vinyl glue dries, it shrinks and draws the vinyl down tightly to the floor. In so doing, it is also exerting equal pressure upwards as its drawing down. It's like using an anchor to pull something heavy that you can't pull without sliding. You're pulling on the heavy item, but are also pulling on the anchor. I've seen lots of floors that had bubbles in the underlayment, for what ever reason, and have had little to no success with trying to get glue under it to actually hold it down. Sorry, but, if it's the underlayment, take a deep breath, accept the thing, and fix it BEFORE the cabinets.
 
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Old 02-14-12, 07:40 AM
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Makes perfect sense. I picture this happening elsewhere in the room a month from now. Thought makes me cringe. I am not looking for a quick fix. This is my dwelling! I plan to live here for some time. I'd hate to pass this on to someone else. Definitely looking at new flooring options.

I would not mind going to the trouble of linoleum again with a different staple / underlayment. Maybe the kind that does not require glue?!
 
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Old 02-14-12, 07:14 PM
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Thumbs up

Okay, hate to be stubborn but I decided to try a simple repair. I cut out one of the black diamonds from the pattern, drilled a hole and used a marinade injector to pump in 3/4 oz of wood glue. Got it to spread nicely from the center of the raised area.

Followed up with a 1 5/8" screw and replaced the diamond. Can't tell it was ever messed with. It is sitting with about 150 lbs of tools on it for the next 48 hours. That should do it.

I am going to screw down the areas under the cabinets for good measure & seal the screws with silicone for moisture resistance. If it does happen to crop up somewhere else, the repair is simple enough. Took a few pics also.





The marinade injector looked like the needles they used to pump adamantium into Wolverine! Worked great.
 
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