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Vinyl tiles in bathroom -- need 1/4" plywood or direct on subfloor?

Vinyl tiles in bathroom -- need 1/4" plywood or direct on subfloor?


  #1  
Old 11-08-13, 01:47 PM
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Question Vinyl tiles in bathroom -- need 1/4" plywood or direct on subfloor?

Long story short, I bought a house that needs quite a few fixes; whole house plumbing, carpet, int/ext paint, blinders, few windows, etc... to list few so need to be economical.

New carpet will be installed in the bedrooms except master bathroom/toilet/closet area that had carpet and thinking of putting peel and stick vinyl tiles.
Something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Armstrong...7#.Un0lhxDj1FU
It's pretty cheap @ .69/sq. ft so the whole area can be done under $100 plus other things like underlay, primer/sealer, nails etc.

I read many threads and some mention to use 1/4" plywood underlayment while manufacturer doesn't require it.
The bathroom is upstairs and Colorado is very dry so moisture should not be issue.

I am confused.

Should I use 1/4" plywood and prime it with sealer or just prime the subfloor and lay the vinyl tiles?
HD sells this moisture resistant board (not waterproof): 1/4 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. Moisture-Resistant Plywood Underlayment-431178 at The Home Depot

Is there any waterproof alternative besides sealing plywood?
What type of sealer/primer should be used?
Does that board need to be glued down or nailed/screwed down to the subfloor?
How far apart should the nails be?
Should the plywood go wall to wall or need gap near the wall?
Also, can a hand saw do the job or need a table saw?

The kitchen also needs new floor as the old pergo is peeling off in few places.
Not sure if I can put vinyl tiles on top of pergo.
Thanks for suggestions.
 

Last edited by Mystery123; 11-08-13 at 02:06 PM.
  #2  
Old 11-08-13, 02:20 PM
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I would not waste money putting underlayment under the peel and stick. If you are lucky, they might last a year. I would wait and put it down when you install a more permanent flooring.
 
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Old 11-08-13, 02:43 PM
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Hmm... won't last a year?
Several threads mention them doing fine for more than 5 years.
 
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Old 11-08-13, 02:59 PM
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Total waste of time and money to even think about peel and stick tiles any place for about at least 6 different reasons.
If your trying to do this on the cheap use a quality linoleum sheet flooring.
Nothing other then a throw rug can be laid over any laminate flooring.
Under layment is never sealed or painted before laying a floor unless it's pet stained and carpets going in.
As you can see laminate never should be used in a bathroom, kitchen, laundry room. Gets wet once and it's trash.
The laminate needs to go before any new floor goes in.
 
  #5  
Old 11-08-13, 03:25 PM
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Hmmm...
Okay, I'll research on linoleum sheet flooring.
Is that as easy as vinyl tiles and does that need 1/4" underlayment or can be put directly on subfloor?
Also, if there is no adhesive back, how does it stick to the subfloor?

I found Lowes link for linoleum installation instruction: Install Sheet Vinyl Flooring

I'll go through and see what that involves.
BTW, is vinyl different material than linoleum or are they same but difference is on tile vs big sheet?
thanks
 
  #6  
Old 11-08-13, 03:42 PM
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Linoleum needs a smooth flat surface to install it.
Going to have to tell us what there now from the joist on up.
Most often it's 1/4" underlayment rated sanded plywood not louon.
No glue under it.
It's laided so the seams do not line up with the joist below.
The best way to install it is with a pneumatic narrow crown staple gun. It's fast and the holes are so small they do not need to be filled.
Since you have almost no tools you may have to use underlayment nails. They need to be every 4" on the edges and about every 6 to 8" in the field.
Then your going to have to go back and fill all the seams, nails and any flaws with floor patch.
Linoleum is glued down. You use a 1/16 toothed trowel to spread out the glue to about 2" from the outside walls.
Once layed you use a floor roller to smooth it out.
Sounds like a lot but a real flooring company could do the whole job in a couple of hours.
FYI a hand saw will be useless.
 
  #7  
Old 11-08-13, 08:31 PM
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I cannot afford to pay flooring company to do this small area in the bathroom.
Already spent too much on whole house plumbing with PEX and carpet plus wife wants hardwood on main floor and bunch of other things left.
So this is on me.
I pulled the carpet out and it's just MDF kind wood floor underneath.
They used tack strip all around that place, even around the toilet where those strips are just 2 inches apart in few places.
I'll take those strips and pads out along with staples and see if I can glue the linoleum directly on it or need to use 1/4" plywood.

I think HD and lowes have areas where I can cut plywood.
If hand saw won't cut it, do you think a jigsaw or circular saw is better for cutting wood or plywood?

I can buy one of these jigsaw for $30 Ryobi 4.8-Amp Variable-Speed Jigsaw-JS481L at The Home Depot
 
  #8  
Old 11-09-13, 09:07 AM
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"Hmm... won't last a year?
Several threads mention them doing fine for more than 5 years."
I have been installing flooring since 1973. Even with installing underlayment, putting primer down and adding extra adhesive, peel and stick is a temporary floor. They shrink, they crack, the color is only on the surface, they are just not a good product. It doesn't seem to matter what brand either. I have seen the dollar store stuff last as long as Armstrong, which isn't very long.
 
  #9  
Old 11-09-13, 10:16 AM
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Okay but what is this floor in my townhouse bathroom since 1982?

Okay vinyl tiles are not good but what is this floor in my townhouse bathroom since 1982?
It's more than 31 years and still is good, no peel, no warp, no bend.
If I can get something like this, I don't need better.
Is that linoleum sheet or vinyl?
Thanks

 
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Old 11-09-13, 04:19 PM
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Looks like linoleum, but could be either.
 
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Old 11-09-13, 04:42 PM
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If you really have partial board it also needs to go.
It gets wet once and it turns to oat meal.
Unbelievable someone put carpet in a bathroom! May as well have laided sponges on the floor.
That picture looks like linoleum.
I've seen many a 25 year old quality linoleum floor still look new.
Cheap out on the material and your wasting your time and money.
 
  #12  
Old 11-14-13, 09:01 AM
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It doesn't look like particle board.

It doesn't look like particle board.
It's painted white and kinda smooth so hopefully it's wood.
What do you think?

 
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Old 11-14-13, 12:42 PM
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Not 100% but it looks like plywood to me.
 
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Old 11-14-13, 12:44 PM
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Okay, assuming it's plywood, can I directly put vinyl or linoleum sheet on top?
 
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Old 11-18-13, 09:27 AM
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It does look like particle board after clearing things out.

Well after removing carpet pad, it does look like particle board.
It's painted white but I can see the texture.
Can I put primer/glue on top of this and put vinyl/linoleum?

The green stuff is not mold, it's dust from carpet pad.

 
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  #16  
Old 11-18-13, 10:43 AM
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That's OSB. I would not put vinyl on top of it, as it is not smooth and vinyl is very good at showing the imperfections of the surface beneath.
 
  #17  
Old 11-18-13, 11:02 AM
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Okay so I need a 1/4" plywood underlayment before putting vinyl?
I'm planning on doing this coming weekend so need to get ready.
Thanks.
 
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Old 11-18-13, 11:43 AM
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Make sure it is underlayment quality 1/4" plywood, and not luan. Install it with a narrow crown stapler with at least 7/8" staples.
 
  #19  
Old 11-19-13, 11:30 AM
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Do I have to leave some space between the wall and plywood?
I have a hand saw so thinking I'll cut the plywood at HD or Lowes and bring them home.
 
  #20  
Old 11-25-13, 01:37 PM
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Question

How do I know if 7/8" staples are enough?
I'm not sure if the OSB sub-floor is 1/2" or 3/4".
I guess it's 3/4" for residential standard???
If it is 3/4", total thickness is 1" so do I need 1" instead of 7/8" staples or is 7/8" is safe for either thicknesses?

Also, when I pulled the tack strip out, in few places the osb chunks also came with the nail.
Do I need to fill that and if yes, what to use?
thanks again.
 

Last edited by Mystery123; 11-25-13 at 02:01 PM.
  #21  
Old 01-13-14, 01:39 PM
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Okay I've been out with back pain.
I did buy the tools finally though.
1. Ryobi 3-gallon air compressor: Ryobi 3-Gal. Oil Free Air Compressor-DISCONTINUED-YN301PL at The Home Depot
2. Numax nailer/stapler with 5000 staples (not sure if I need that many): NuMax S2-118G2 18-Gauge 2 In 1 Brad Nailer and Stapler - Amazon.com
3. Ryobi jigsaw: Ryobi 4.8-Amp Variable-Speed Jigsaw-JS481L at The Home Depot

That should be good enough but I can't find linoleum sheet in local stores.
All they have is vinyl.
Where do I buy linoleum sheet from?
thanks for info.
 
  #22  
Old 01-13-14, 02:21 PM
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You probably won't be able to find linoleum. Vinyl will work fine. Linoleum is better left to the pros anyway. It's very brittle and difficult to install.
 
  #23  
Old 02-01-14, 06:51 AM
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Thumbs up Man this thing is becoming a year long project. :-)

I admit, I'm lazy and with off and on back pain, I don't even feel like doing anything.
Anyways, I finally laid birch triply underlayment in the bathroom.
The toilet side still is not done.
That area is tricky due to the toilet, water hose etc... and I don't want to disconnect anything.
Hopefully, in few days.

 
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  #24  
Old 02-02-14, 11:24 AM
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Question Quick question

Quick question, if I remove the toilet and put 1/4" underlayment and vinyl underneath, does that affect the bolts holding the toilet?
I mean will the toilet seat against the wax ring with added height?
thanks
 
  #25  
Old 02-02-14, 12:00 PM
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You will need to use a new wax ring. When you remove the toilet, inspect the wax ring to see how much of it compressed. While not etched in stone, it will give you a guide as to how thick of a ring you will need to replace it with. The bolts may or may not work. The added thickness may make the bolts too short. They are cheap and I would opt for a new set that has adjustable break free areas. Install, and then snap them off with a pliers to size. It is also an excellent time to upgrade the supply line for the toilet to a steel braided one.
 
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Old 02-02-14, 01:22 PM
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Bolts are always trimmed to length after installation. That normally leaves them to short for reuse even if nothing has changed. Bottom line from my experience you never try to reuse the bolts. You always use new and cut (or snap) off the excess length off after installing.
 
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Old 02-02-14, 09:05 PM
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Thanks for replies.
New wax ring is no problem.
Is it easy to replace the bolt or I have to tear something else to access the bolt?

Edit: I may just do it without removing the toilet if I can cut the plywood correctly around it.
 

Last edited by Mystery123; 02-02-14 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 02-03-14, 01:52 PM
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Toilet should sit on the floor. There is no special skill needed to change out the toilet bolts. Once you have the toilet off, the bolts will either be loosely hooked in a channel or a single nut will be holding it in place. The bolt has an oval shaped base and the groove in the flange has two sizes. The bolt slips into the groove and you turn it so it catches on the groove.
 
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Old 02-05-14, 04:04 PM
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Thumbs up Underlay is around the toilet... next is glue and vinyl selection...

Thanks.
I tried to get the toilet off but the bolts are really short and rusted and don't budge.
I would have broken the toilet it I used any more force lifting the nut up so I gave up.
I cut plywood around the toilet and stapled in.
It's ready for vinyl.
Next is to select what color vinyl and what glue.
 
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  #30  
Old 02-05-14, 04:53 PM
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If you ever want to change the toilet someday down the road, you can not. The footprint of the new toilet will not match what you have currently. You gave up because of a stubborn bolt?? Continue if you chose, but do me a favor, and make sure you have 2 cased of vinyl flooring left over to correct the situation down the road when the toilet needs to be replaced. If you don't own the home, the next owner will appreciate the extra stock to repair without having to redo the whole bathroom.
 
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Old 02-05-14, 08:57 PM
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Ya it is pretty stubborn.
There is nothing to grab on as the bolt is sawed off and the whole thing rotates when nut is rotated.
I guess I can saw it off on the bottom but I'll just do it as it is for now.

As shown in the picture, toilet part is not even 2 feet from the back wall and I'll have leftover vinyl to cover more than that if needed.
Also, this toilet is a small room (2.5' x 5') separate from big bathroom so it can have its own different vinyl if future work damages anything.
Hopefully, I'll finish this week.
BTW, I'm putting sheet vinyl, not vinyl tiles so there will be no extra cases of anything except leftover from a 8' x 12' vinyl sheet.
 
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Old 02-12-14, 05:31 PM
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Thumbs up Almost done...

Took long time to trim around the door jambs, toilet etc...
Little bit messed up cut in the back of toilet but no one can notice unless they kneel and look behind the toilet.

Now some caulking and transition strips to carpet and it'll be done.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
 
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Old 03-07-14, 06:31 PM
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I mistakenly replied without noticing the dates and the last 3 pages of posts. So I'm erasing my answer and might repost to the current situation, maybe.

Jaz
 
 

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