backerboard/screws (2 questions)

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  #1  
Old 01-25-03, 07:23 AM
drmax
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backerboard/screws (2 questions)

1) is it necessary to apply mortor to my backerboard prior to laying in down on chip board underlayment, before screwing it down into place? (using the thin hardiebacker on small bathroom floor)
2) i was told to use bugle head screws. now, lowes carries this but the shank is too long and bottoms out before sinking the head completely. (backerboard same thickness as bare shank on screw) What other type of screw would be recommended?

Thx, DM
 
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  #2  
Old 01-25-03, 11:08 AM
J
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(1) Yes, you must use thinset mortar under the backerboard. You apply this to the floor, not to the backerboard. The primary purpose is to provide a secure surface for the backerboard with no gaps.

(2) Use only galvanized roofing nails (cheap) or special backboard screws (expensive). The backerboard screws have special teeth on the underside of the head that help them bore into the backerboard so the screw heads sit flush. Hardibacker makes a special screw just for their product, which differ slightly from the screws made for other brands of cement board.
 
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Old 01-25-03, 11:35 AM
TileguyTodd
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If you lay that CBU over chipboard you are gauranteed a failure down the road. Follow the CBU manufacturers advice and set that board on plywood.
 
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Old 01-25-03, 12:28 PM
drmax
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tileguy

don't really know what cbu stands for. i assume the backerboard.
are you saying to either put plywood over the chipboard, or to re-
move my existing chipboard and replace with plywood? if either of
these, it will either be way to high, or way to much work. please let me know if i'm reading your post correctly. thx, dm
 
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Old 01-25-03, 12:44 PM
TileguyTodd
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If you were planning on using 1/2" Concerete Board (CBU)
You could put down 1 layer of1/4"Underlayment grade Birch plywood + 1 layer of 1/4" Utilicrete.
Personally i would tear out the particle board and put in new plywood. This would be your best choice.
Removing subfloor is not that difficult with the proper tools.You may need to rent a toekick saw to get right to the wall edge but a circular saw and a good sized prybar makes short work of a seemingly ugly job. Good Luck whatever you choose
 
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Old 01-25-03, 02:20 PM
drmax
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.

actually, plan on using hardibacker, which i think is something like 3/8". i'll ck into adding the 1/4" plywood. thx, dm


Originally posted by TileguyTodd
If you were planning on using 1/2" Concerete Board (CBU)
You could put down 1 layer of1/4"Underlayment grade Birch plywood + 1 layer of 1/4" Utilicrete.
Personally i would tear out the particle board and put in new plywood. This would be your best choice.
Removing subfloor is not that difficult with the proper tools.You may need to rent a toekick saw to get right to the wall edge but a circular saw and a good sized prybar makes short work of a seemingly ugly job. Good Luck whatever you choose
 
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Old 01-25-03, 02:22 PM
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So..?....are we talking about particle board or Chip board?...if it's chip board(OSB) you can put the cement board on top....if it's particle board(looks like saw dust), then...well..Todd already told you.
 
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Old 01-25-03, 02:49 PM
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I usually assume that when somebody says "chipboard," they really mean OSB. In fact, about half of the time people say "particle board," they mean OSB. The term OSB is not in most people's vocabulary.

Complete installation instructions, along with frequently asked questions and just about any other information you would want, are available at http://www.hardibacker.com/
 
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Old 01-25-03, 08:39 PM
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To my knowledge HardiBacker comes in 1/4" and 1/2" only.
CBU: Cementuous Backer Unit.
OSB: Oriented Strand Board.

Did someone already say all that?
 
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Old 01-28-03, 05:48 AM
drmax
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chip

Hello, it's 3/4" OSB. The hardibacker I have is 1/4". It was also suggested to me to 1st apply this liquid sealer (can't remember the name, starts with a K) The guy at lowes said this would prevent the chip board from sucking the moisture out of the mortor. Then was planning on trowling down some mortor with laytex in it, then laying down the backerboard.
Any suggestions for my plan, I'm still listening. Thx, DM
 

Last edited by drmax; 01-29-03 at 07:15 AM.
  #11  
Old 01-28-03, 07:31 AM
TileguyTodd
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Please Provide me with the page number In the TCA handbook that specifies OSB as a suitable substrate For the installation of Ceramic tile.They seem to have left that page out of mine!!

OSB has as yet to be added as an acceptable substrate for ceramic tile.Many builders are using Advantech which has some great characteristics as far as shear strength goes However, An approved underlayment is still required Under ANSI-108 with the exception of a 1 1/4" Mudset.

This is the real world of Tile Installations. Please check your statistics before advising a DIY er on how to proceed. They really rely on proffessional information.
 
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Old 01-28-03, 06:52 PM
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The guy at Lowe's said what??????

"NONSENSE"

Where's that guy gonna be when your floor goes to hell and you go lookin' for him? He's gonna be wrappin' burgers at McDonalds that's where! Three weeks ago I remember seeing that same guy at WalMart pushing a string of shopping carts into the building. He was wearing an orange safety vest. Remember him Todd?
 
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Old 01-28-03, 07:00 PM
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Your page in the TCA Handbook is missing because they ground it up and made OSB out of it.

Here's the Installation Instruction off of hardie's website.

For all floors:

Use minimum 5/8" exterior grade plywood or 3/4" exterior grade OSB, complying with Local Building Codes and ANSI A108.11, over joists. Joists' spacing not to exceed a maximum of 16" on center.

Deflection must not exceed L/360 of the span, including live and dead design loads.

Do not use glue between grooves of tongue-and-groove plywood to allow for expansion and contraction of plywood.
 
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Old 01-29-03, 06:52 AM
TileguyTodd
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And would you like to look up the ANSI Code and post it here too please. I think you might find that the OSB is to be subfloor material and be overlayed with Plywood underlayment.
OSB Is not now or has ever been an approved substrate for tile Period. Now shall we put this issue to rest or shall I have Dave Gobis From the ceramic tile education foundation (CTEF)who has a seat on the TCA council pop on in for an education seminar
 
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Old 01-29-03, 02:55 PM
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Oh, I think Dave has a gotten a wiff of this already ...kind of like the Bat Signal!
 
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Old 01-29-03, 04:22 PM
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OH NO!!!!!!!!!

Not the tile Police!!! eeek!






I'm sorry Dave, I couldn't resist.
 
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