Flex Bond Mortar Problem

I used slightly less than 1/4" Flex Bond Gray Bonding Mortar on top of double plywood floor. I then used 1/4" hardi-backer nailed every 8". The problem is the leftover mortar completely turned back to powder rubbing it between my fingers. The mortar under the hardi-backer is also breaking down and did not bond. I sent a used sample to the company and the results were that I mixed it right, but they couldn't tell me why, it reverted back to powder. They did tell me however they don't recommend using their mortar products after 6 months. I never heard of unopened mortar going bad. Since there is no expiration date on the bag, you can't tell the age. They said Home Depot rotates their stock every 6 months. They also told me that it would not be a problem to continue laying the tile. Of course I won't use Custom Products Flex Bond. Although, they said I shouldn't have any problems and to continue with my project. I am concerned since this is a laundry room with alot of vibration from my old washer. Will the breaking down of FlexBond under the hardi-backer cause my grout or tile on top to crack? Some powder actually seeps out into the kitchen between the doorway.

 

there are occasions when i have run into bad mortar,too much sand and not eneough portland or whatever,you need to get these people at h.d. to stand behind what they seel and replace this stuff.Yes it will cause problems with grout and/or tile breakind and cracking stay on em to fix this problem

 

I can't blame HD for selling the product. I blame Custom Building Products, CA. They could have shipped a bad product. Custom Blend admitted not to use their product if it is older than 6 months. They should be responsible since they don't label accordingly. But then neither does Lati-cete who told me their mortar is good for up to a year.

I don't know if Custom Building was just BS'n me since I am a woman, when they told me to go ahead with the project. Thats why I came here for help cause I don't trust them completely.

Are you saying then, the hardi-backer will fall and I really need to rip it up and start over? I had planned to use 3/8" Lati-crete thinset w/ addmix. for the tile.

If that is the case this job won't get done until next year, or not at all. Living in the East we can get snow any day and I can't cut hardi-backer in the house. If I rip up the hardi I guess I won't be able to lay the tile right on the plywood, which is what I should have done in the first place, since there will be old residue from the old mortar left on the plywood. What do you think about that? Thanks for your time and attention. It is appreciated.

 

Another factor can be using, partial bags,old bags ect. is that the powder can settle.or separate.Even with new bags its not a bad idea to flip it to reblend the powder.When its shipped in the powder can separate do to shaking down the road.Yea I know what your thinking I never do that.The potential problem is with smaller jobs when your not mixing the whole bag.

 

Although Custom says that HD should rotate their stock every six months, it would be news to me if HD actually did this.

Considering the different levels of humidity and temperature at each HD, it would be a practical nightmare for them to do this.

From HD's or any business' viewpoint, if a product came in that was to be rotated and didn't have a packaging date, they should request it be put on the bag or it shouldn't be inventoried and eventually sold. Since HD sells it without the packaging date, they should take the responsibility for it.

You should go back to HD and talk to someone in authority. They sold it to you, so they should be the one to have to deal with Custom. If you're not satisfied with what they should do (replace the mortar, HB and labor), then you approach Custom again.

Mortar that just turns to powder is just not acceptable.

P.S. There are lot numbers on most bags so that the manufacturer can track them. Asking anyone except the manufacturer when it was packaged from the lot number will just draw a blank stare. That's the main reason I don't think HD or any other store is able to tell.... and in turn, rotate their stock.

 

You all have given good advice, and I thank you. I will talk to HD even though I don't deal with them anymore & call Custom to see if I can get a mfg date.

I saw another post that a couple had problem with FlexBond not bonding to the tile but the post was closed. The first Tech Rep. at Custom was rather nasty when I asked questions about the product. One comment he said I can't get out of my mind because it insulted me. He said "You are just going to sue us anyway". The thought never occurred to me. I was just asking questions. But it makes me think maybe they are having lawsuits for bad products. After a month run around I finally did talk to someone who was really nice to deal with.

 

Do you remember who you talked to?I know some people there and will pass on the info. You can either post it here or in privite message.

 

Hi Trix,

No one seems to have touched on the fact that the backer board does not have to bond to the subfloor. The thin set is meant to fill any voids that might occur by simply nailing it down. So I think you are probably okay in that respect.

Any cement product can go bad in the sack under certain conditions. Humidity can cause partial hydration, which will not form hard spots in the mix as will actual moisture. The product can remain in its powdery state and just plain not work. That is apparently what's happened. Also, all cement products are dated. You just can't read the date. It's a little secret between the manufacturer and the vendor.

Home Depot accepts returns on all products, and they put the stuff back on the shelves. The experts in the aisle don't understand the nature of cement.

I use Versa Bond all the time, and I buy it at Home Depot. Versa Bond will do the job for you. Make sure you pull the sack out of the pallet. Don't take the one on the top that looks a little rumpled. I think you're okay.

 

anything that returns to it's original state that has portland in it is not ok.We did not hit on the fact that it was to only fill gaps and not act as a bonding agent cause it that was'nt the question.trix you need to stay on h.d. til you get someone out there to look at this problem they will but you'll have to keep after them.This product for whatever reaspn has failed,they will try to blame it on you but icant think of anything that you could have done to make it return to powder

 

Un momento, por favor!

I didn't mean to say it's okay to sell a product that's no good. What I said was I think the installation will be okay despite that the product is not good. Isn't that the most important issue?

 

The installation is the most important issue. As a novice this is why I had asked for advice. Thanks to all of you, you have given me a lot to ponder upon.
I did received two letters from Custom. One from Tech Rep. was no help had apologized for misunderstandings.

The other from the Director of Tech. Service. who has been excellent to deal with, stated pretty much the same as John Bridge.
The letter said based on the floor construction, the hardi-backer, the nail size & pattern, the 12 x 12 tiles, they did not foresee any problems proceeding with the installation.

If nothing else, I may be able to create enough of a stink, to get HD to educate their employees, of the potential problems neglecting to rotate, &/or returning out-dated products.

 

If you could convince them to stop accepting returns on cement products, you would be doing everyone a great service. No one, but no one in the tile business accepts returned cement.

Lots of luck.

 

was'nt trying to raise any blood pressures here.You cant always get the point across in the manner intendedon these darn computers,sorry for any misinterpeted language.if you would please keep us posted on the out come of all this ,the status of the floor included so we may get a better understanding of this as well, thanx