ceramic tile on vinyl?


  #1  
Old 11-25-03, 09:01 AM
aern
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ceramic tile on vinyl?

Hi, I plan to install ceramic on my kitchen floor, currently it's gloss vinyl over board, is it possible I install ceramic tile directly on vinyl, any drawback?

Thanks in advance
 
  #2  
Old 11-25-03, 10:30 AM
neflamingo
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Possible? Anything is possible.
Advisable? Not unless you are willing to replace your cracked grout and broken tiles in the next couple of years.

Vinyl flooring is too cushioned and too slick for tile to adhere to. The wood underneath will expand and contract ,what do you think that will do to tile? The subfloor has to be a minimum thickness, and the joists have to be rigid enough for a tile installation. My vote, remove the vinyl, find out what is under it and then post back with the info.
 
  #3  
Old 11-25-03, 11:48 AM
ee3
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Maybe the moderators could make that a thread like the asbestos warning DO NOT TILE OVER VINYL!!
 
  #4  
Old 11-25-03, 02:12 PM
aern
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Thumbs up

thanks for quick reply, I will check what's under it then come back
 
  #5  
Old 11-26-03, 09:11 AM
aern
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Hi, Just got the underneath, looks like plywood, can I install ceramic tile over it directly?



Thanks in advance
 
  #6  
Old 11-26-03, 11:26 AM
florcraft
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It looks like your going to have a hieght difference from the tile to the what looks like wood or laminate. If the plywood is underlay, you can tear it out and install hopefully a thinner concrete board and then the tile, that way the height is lower.
 
  #7  
Old 11-26-03, 02:16 PM
floorman
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you need i min. of 1 1/8 of subfloor with joists 2x10 on 16" centers to support tile.Take the luan up and go back with 1/2 durock screwed and glued per manufacturers reccomendations.By glued i mean thinset sorry.Then we talk tile,if you skimp on this part it is garunteed to fail ya.Check the joists and let us know what you have,check the span of the beam alsoand check the thickness of the plywood subfloor without the luan
 
  #8  
Old 11-26-03, 06:30 PM
aern
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Question

Hey guys, thanks a lot for response, I just checked again, there is a new problem, actually there already had ceramic tile installed on one side of my kitchen to place appliances, they used mesh under ceramic, please check images below.
And it seems there is already layed 1/4" plywood underneath vinyl in kitchen.
what should I do - lay mesh underneath ceramic like it's done before or lay a subfloor like wonderboard?


www.pbase.com/aern/inbox

Thanks in advance
 
  #9  
Old 11-26-03, 06:39 PM
floorman
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no need for the mesh,tear all that out including the luan and take down to original subfloor.Add 1/2 durock and fasten according manufacturers reccomendations,still need you to check the joists and thickness of subfloor though
 
  #10  
Old 11-26-03, 08:14 PM
aern
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I just got this data from my second floor, kitchen is in main floor, it should be same, Joist Height: 7.25", Width 1.5", spaceing on center 16", length 10', thickness of subfloor is 3/4", is it ok?
May I use 1/4 durock? since there is height issue.

Thanks
 

Last edited by aern; 11-26-03 at 08:25 PM.
  #11  
Old 11-27-03, 11:08 AM
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Your deflection as it stands is L/480. That's good enough for ceramic, not good enough for most natural stone.

Instead of using 1/4" cement board, why not go with 1/8" Ditra? It's much quicker and easier to install, plus it won't be a hassle to pick up from the store. It cuts with a box cutter and installs with a modified thinset (over plywood).

It goes over 3/4" plywood or OSB.
 
  #12  
Old 11-27-03, 11:32 AM
D
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Should we have a ceramic over vinyl won't work "sticky"??

If so please reply.
 
  #13  
Old 11-27-03, 11:38 AM
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Darn tootin'.

It's the #1 question on our website and even though it's the first question answered in our FAQ section, people still ask about it on forums such as these.

If you need help writing it, I'll lend a hand.

David
 
  #14  
Old 11-27-03, 04:29 PM
aern
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Hi, Guys, thanks for the input, I decided to use Ditra, but when I pull up the plywood, find another layer over plank, looks like mortar, but 12"*12" each piece, thicknees is similar to vinyl, what's that, what should I do? it adheres to plank very well, hard to pull up. is it good that I just install ceramic over plywood or over it?

www.pbase.com/aern/new1

Thanks
 
  #15  
Old 11-27-03, 05:38 PM
D
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The tile under the ply will be ok with the ply and Ditra.
 
  #16  
Old 11-29-03, 01:00 PM
D
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You write it and post it I will make it sticky.
 
  #17  
Old 12-01-03, 10:19 AM
ricciuto
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Going backwards on this subject. I didn't want to post a new title as it all falls back on the same subject. Tiling over existing sheet vinyl flooring. I have a small bathroom and I have asked a number of contractors this question and I get a 50/50 response. Some say it is ok to install concrete board directly over the sheet vinyl as long as there are plenty of screws and the sub floor is adequate below the vinyl. Especially in a small bathroom where the width is no more than 5 or 6 feet. Others state the opposite. The contractor who I know personally which is the better of the few I asked said that putting a 1/4" durock is adequate over the vinyl. I am so confused on this matter.
 
  #18  
Old 12-01-03, 01:08 PM
ee3
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it is not recommended(or warrented) but people do it.in a small room as you mentioned you will most likely get away with it. Don't forget to install thin set under the cement board.
 
  #19  
Old 12-01-03, 01:28 PM
florcraft
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I think ee3 said it very simply. People do it but.......
I am in the flooring business, and the second I dont do things by the book....things go wrong...
 
  #20  
Old 12-01-03, 02:41 PM
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Look at what it'll cost if things do go wrong. You've not only wasted tile, you'll have to pay for more. Nobody likes to do a job twice, so do it right the first time.

The right way is to remove the vinyl.

Is it really worth wondering about if it's going to fail? Are you that much of a gambler?

Do it right and you'll sleep very well.
 
  #21  
Old 12-07-03, 06:05 AM
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Well said David.
 
  #22  
Old 12-07-03, 06:19 AM
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Thank you, Daniel.

Is it good enough for the sticky?
 
  #23  
Old 12-08-03, 07:31 PM
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consider it stuck!
 
 

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