Shower pan and Cement board

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Old 12-12-03, 10:29 PM
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Question Shower pan and Cement board

I'm building a bathroom in the basement, including a customized shower. It's all framed and I'm ready for the next step.

1st: I have a couple reference books on how to build the shower pan, but there are quite a few differences between the two. Do you have or could you recommend a definitive plan for doing this?

2nd: Do I use cement board on the ceiling above the shower, or is it too heavy? One of the books said not to use green board on the ceiling for that very reason. If I use cement board on the shower walls, green board on the other walls, do I use regular blue board on the ceiling?

Thanks in advance,
Rick
 
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Old 12-13-03, 01:33 PM
ee3
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1.drain w/ clamping ring
2.slope to drain 1/4" p.f.
3.waterproof liner tuned up walls nailed to studs above curb (3")
4.1 1/4" reinforced mortar bed over liner
5.Cement board on walls over lapping membrane on floor
6.ceiling can be either board.
installation details at wwwnoblecompany.com see chloraloy or shower over veiw
 
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Old 12-13-03, 01:59 PM
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I'll refer you to Schluter's website to look at their shower system. There are fewer parts involved than other companies and it's very easy for the do-it-yourselfer to complete. You'll also end up with a fully-waterproofed, beautiful shower with less effort, aggrevation and total cost.

I'm sure you'll find Schluter's approach to waterproof showers better than the archaic methods still being used today.

You'll be using plain drywall (not water-resisitant) on the walls. With any system, we'll need to know what you'll be installing. The weight of the tile hanging upside-down determines what you'll need to do for ceiling prep.

http://www.schluter.com/english/prod...s_brochure.pdf

Once you've had a look at it, come back to us with any questions.

David
 
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Old 12-13-03, 08:28 PM
ee3
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that is another option ,not invented by them,and requires waterproofing the entire wall, will work too,not listed by plbg code.Membrane per Tile Council Guidlines must meet ANSI 118.10 may also see noble for same.The old way has been proven for over 40 years and offers life time warrenty.
 
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Old 12-13-03, 08:34 PM
floorman
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it is reccomended that you also pre slope the pan before the liner in case any water should get under the liner .

I would also go 6" UP THE WALLS INSTEAD OF 3"

the curb should be 3 2x4's laid flat and nailed together

Use durock on the walls and ceiling and tape all joints with mesh tape and thin set

Put the rock in before you float the pan cause you don't want to nail the last 6" of the rock at the pan so the mud will help hold it in place

Get back to us and let us know what you plan on doing and we'll talk you through it


 
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Old 12-13-03, 08:53 PM
ee3
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above the curb by 3" not only 3"
 
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Old 12-13-03, 09:09 PM
floorman
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yep you're right sorry eric,i hit the caps lock also and wasn't trying to yell
 
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Old 12-13-03, 09:16 PM
ee3
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No problem I had to go back to see what I wrote myself.As for the cap lock by the time I notice I have it on it would take me to long to retype so i leave it.One letter at a time looking down the whole time!!Like I told my teacher who;ll ever need to know how to type !!who would have thunk it.
 
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Old 12-14-03, 12:23 AM
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Thanks for your help. After what you guys have told me, I think I'll stick with the process Floorman and ee3 described. In the "Black & Decker: Complete Guide to Bathrooms" (pgs 148-153), they show the same steps, but they included using metal lath imbedded in both layers of mortar (prepan sloped 1/4" p.f. and in the pan itself) above and below the CPE membrane. Do you think this is necesary? I assume it wouldn't hurt.

In "The Home Depot, Plumbing 1-2-3" (pgs 125-127), they simply show the CPE membrane directly on the floor and then a single layer of mortar on top, sloped appropriately. However, they do stress hanging the backerboard over the membrane prior to laying the mortar.

As I haven't purchased the 3-piece drain assembly yet, what are weep holes? If I cover them with tile spacers to prevent mortar from plugging them, am I supposed to remove the spacers, and when?

Thanks again,
Rick
 
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Old 12-14-03, 01:42 AM
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Eric, are you saying Schluter didn't invent their shower system? Don't be silly. You're conveniently forgetting about the drain (part of the system) again. Noble doesn't have a system with a drain, nor does any other company.

To make a waterproof shower any other way, you need to use products from multiple companies and jerry-rig them together. Good luck on the roof section, too. Cement board weighs a lot more than drywall.
 
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Old 12-14-03, 07:05 AM
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Gentlemen,

The Schluter vs Noble discussion can be done using the PM feature. Please do not hijack a thread to do so. Any further off topic posts in this thread will be deleted. Thanks
 
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Old 12-14-03, 10:31 AM
floorman
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oops, did'nt think we were that far along yet, yea use the lathe on both the pre-slope and the the pan,also when you put the lathe on the pan you cannot nail into shower side of the curb so set the lathe in there so it will hook into the pan lathe so it will help hold in place also.

forget the h.d. method.

the weight of the ceiling is not going to be a factor in this case cause it will be screwed to the ceiling and unless you are going to attach a 1" thick peice of granit or similar object to it then you will be o.k.I would rather put the durock on the ceiling and not worry about moiture penetrating the grout or getting in some other way than delaminating the paper off the greenboard,and having tile ,with gypsum on the back of it falling and clubbing me in the head.If the concern is that great (should'nt be in a regular shower)then you can use epoxy mortar on the ceiling,now if this was a steam shower then different strategy is needed
 
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Old 12-14-03, 10:20 PM
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The basement floor is 'pre-plumbed'. I assumed I'd have to purchase the drain assembly first and set it in place so I could use it as a reference to figure out the correct height for the mortar to acheive the proper slope.

The piece of 2" PVC (for the shower drain) coming out of the basement floor is in a 'box' framed with wood and full of gravel. Do I do anything special with this (besides remove the wood frame) before I fill it with mortar for the pre-pan?

Not all the shower walls go all the way up to the ceiling. Two sides are open at the top. Therefore, the tile on the 4 shower walls will be placed up to the height of those 'open' walls. The top foot or so of the two complete walls, plus the ceiling, will be painted. I can just texture the cement board that's not tiled and paint it to match the rest of the bathroom, right? Do I have to cut the cement board and flip it over so the smooth side is out where I plan to paint instead of tile?

Thanks again,
Rick
 
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Old 12-15-03, 04:09 PM
ee3
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Once the drain is set at the needed elevation fill the void w/ mud.(mortar)
In many cases if the wall is high enough you can use dry wall painted on the upper and ceiling...(greenboard is a waste but used often)????
 
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Old 12-15-03, 07:22 PM
floorman
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i thought we were tiling the ceiling,just use green board then and paint sorry bout that
 
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