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Old 02-19-04, 02:44 PM
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Product Assesment

Hi folks;
I am comtemplating embarking on a tile voyage of labor in my house. I am looking at three bathrooms ( one full, two half) and a kitchen. Also possibly a hallway.
I have been shopping around in some tile stores away from the Box stores and have come up with some names I am not familiar with and need some outside input thats not from a sales representative! LOL!
One place has recommended using Mapier underlayment products, ie; Mapier Ultraplan MB underlayment and a choice of some of the following tile manufacturers;
US Ceramic tile Co.-------------
Laufen----------------------------
Metropolitan Ceramics---------
Casalgrande Padena-----------
Ceramic Expressions-----------
Iron Gate Tile--------------------
Granitifiandre--------------------

Any opinions on these products?
Now I am aware of Ditra and some of their products and was leaning towards using them. But I wish to consider all options as I am only going to do this ONCE!!!!! LOL!!!

Also the boards in this house are 2x91/2 (10?) on 16 inch center.

TIA
 
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Old 02-19-04, 06:46 PM
floorman
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not too familiar with some of those but laufen i'm not a big fan of soft bodied and not real consistant size wise,and the glazing isn't ve ry good either.

We are going to need a little more info as far as the rest of the flloor goes,we need the span of the joists between the beams and the thickness of the subfloor and what the subfloor is o.s.b. plywood ,particle board , etc.

mapei is a good product line been around for years and is tried and tested.Get back to us and tell us that info and we'll go from there
 
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Old 02-21-04, 11:35 AM
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Thanks for the reply floorman;
Here is what I have been able to ascertain. Please bear in mind that this structure was built in 1923. The basement is a utility basement , with a under the house garage which is separated by a dividing wall that does not appear to be a bearing wall.
I hope that in the following I don't confuse terminology here! LOL!
On the main floor the joists run the length of the house and the upper floor has the joist run the width of the house. Standard I guess.
The house is 43 feet(length) by 30 feet(wide). All the beams appear to be Oak and are 2.5" x 9.5"x 16 OC throughout the house. The lower floors have the Joists supported in the near middle, in the basement, by a cross beam. The kitchen has a 1/2 " subfloor over boards layed at a oblique angle to the joists.
This is a small kitchen and the area to be tiled is appoximately 6 feet by 20 feet.
The upstairs main tiling project is a previously tiled bathroom that has 3x6 tiles ( apparent original) and the small sextagon floor tiles appox 1" size. There appears to be a sizeable mud floor underneath.
The other half bathroom is a unfinished project that is a open canvas and is open to any, and all, ideas. Was started as a conversion, and never finished, by a previous owner. All plumbing is run and is in good shape. That I had checked and redone bya licensed plumber. This room is L shaped, and a small area.
Appox 3 1/2 ft wide for 6 feet then 6(wide) x 4 feet(length). There is presently only a linoleum floor over a deterioated T&G wood floor layed over the same type diagonal slats as the kitchen.

Sorry about length of this post but I felt is was necessary to convey a accurate picture. I want to ensure that if I have a tiler come in I will be receiving accurate information. Once had one tell me he would lay a tile entranceway over a old T&G floor without taking it up. I was then new to owning a house but showed him the door he came in as the way to go.

Thanks in advance.
 

Last edited by Bob M; 02-21-04 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 02-21-04, 03:37 PM
floorman
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sounds like you have a well built house.The sub floor in the kitchen sounds fine just tighten up the ply wood and the 1x6 slats with screws and then lay the c.b.u. per the manufacturers recommendations,i prefer durock but hardi backer and perma base are also good too.

The floor upstairs is gonna be a little messier to deal with .That and the mud bed need to go .How far apart are the 1x6's spaced?If further than 1/2 inch you may want to consider laying some 3/8 plywood down before the c.b.u.Not to say that the spacing will cause problems, but it may so why take the chance if you're going through all this i think i would only want to do this once.

As for the other bath remove everything down to the 1x6 and start over and use 1/2 c.b.u. on everything don't use 1/4 it's too flimsy and you won't have eneough subfloor to support the tile if you do.

Keep in mind when tearing all this stuff out that the further down you get the more you will run into things that are not good for you such as asbestos and lead so use a respirator or at the very least a good dust mask.Have fun and please let us know how you are coming along in the project
 
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Old 02-21-04, 05:05 PM
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Floorman;
Thanks for the prompt reply!
The joists in this place are 2.5x9.5x16 OC throughout. The studs are 2x4x 16 OC. The floor slats appear to be only 1/4 'apart. Definitely not 1/2 inch, almost touch each other. Most of the walls in this house are plaster with lathe. Except where a previous short-term owner put up some sheetrock.

In the main bathroom the studs are 2x4 overlaid with wire screen emeshed mud up the wall to 4 feet high. This section is tiled and the remaining was painted/wallpapered. ( 7 foot ceilings)

I was planning on greenboarding over the present ( now bare wall) wall in the non-shower area, above the present tile, then remove the wall tile and then thinset/Mapier to flush with the greenboard, then re-tile.
In the shower area I was holding judgement as I have to see what evil awaits underneath. If bad, I was going to use CBU, Schulter products and tile. If intact, I was contemplating doing the same as the floor (Mapier/thinset to flush then re-tiling).
I know in the recesses of my ulcerated stomach that complete stripping would be the best, but the wall would be a bear to get through and maybe more than it's worth! ;-).
The other bathroom may be a cakewalk( famous last words!!) as I plan to put 1/2 inch plywood down as a sub-floor and start anew there. Since that is only a throne/reading room would CBU on the floor be necessary or overkill?
Any thoughts appreciated!
 

Last edited by Bob M; 02-21-04 at 06:36 PM.
  #6  
Old 02-22-04, 10:35 AM
floorman
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I was planning on greenboarding over the present ( now bare wall) wall in the non-shower area, above the present tile, then remove the wall tile and then thinset/Mapier to flush with the greenboard, then re-tile


not quite sure i understand this statement are you planning on leaving the tile in the shower and building the wall up on the outside of the sower to match?If so then i think you may be better off firring out the wall with nothing on it far eneough so when you get the greenboard on you will be flush and no floating will be needed just an opinion I'm not there looking at it so maybe you see something i can't.

You can settile over plywood but certain rules must be followed or it will fail,The reccomended and best practice though is still the c.b.u..I think you will be o.k. going over what you have with the c.b.u. and screwing it to the floor,no check that, you will need to put thinset under the c.b.u. and with the slats that won't work .Go ahead with the ply wood but make certain you

A)Leave 1/8 inch gaps between the sheets both in length and width.

B)Use a good latex modified thinset that is reccomended for use over plywood.

C)Leave 1/8 baps at the wall line all the way around

D)Use a cdx plywood one with 4 or 5 layers don't use wolmanized the chemicals used for the process will not work with the thinset

E)Screw down don't nail, every 2" on the seams and every 4" in the field, make it tight

Please get back to us and let us know how you are coming along
 
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Old 02-22-04, 12:11 PM
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Hi Floorman;
Sorry for any confusion here. I may have inadvertenly gave a bad image of the present bathroom wall configuration.
Think 1920/30s bathrooms. Seven foot ceilings, tile off the floor for 4 feet, 1 inch setback, three feet un-tiled to ceiling.
As stated the tile comes up the wall, from the floor, 4 feet. Then there is a 1 inch setback to the UN-tiled section ( 3 ft to ceiling). This continues all around the bathroom to the shower/bath area where the tiles then go to the ceiling and enclose the bath area. ( Ummmm, redundant sentences?)

What I was contemplating was in the PRESENT UNtiled area(3 ft.) put the greenboard right against the present wall. This should raise that area. I would then remove the present tile (4ft height area and full bath area),and use Mapier underlayment ( or thinset) to resurface the area that I removed the tiles from( floor and wall, remember I was considering using the original mud base. ), until it is smooth.
When all was smooth and flush I would re-tile. Sound feasible? Would the Mapier/thinset properly adhere to the old concrete or should I just bite the bullet and get out the sledge hammer, Zantac and Antiacids? LOL!!!
Hope this clears up any confusion.
 
  #8  
Old 02-22-04, 12:34 PM
floorman
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i now understand,you may want to try to get the tile off the wall fisrt cause i think you might find the mud set will probably crumble pretty easily when the tile come s off the wall.Now i might be wrong also ,i have seen some of theses types of installations be quite the pain in the rump when trying to removw this.It was put there to stay.So try getting the tile off first and see what happens you may find you want to remove the whole thing and start from scratch
 
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