Reusing slate tile

Reply

  #1  
Old 09-04-04, 09:59 AM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 96
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Reusing slate tile

My fiancee's foyer is (was) laid with small slate tiles in a random pattern (size and color). There were a few loose tiles and my future daughter-in-law was
going to help by cleaning the tiles and sealing them before we tried to reset the loose tile and regrouted. We were out on errands and when we returned every single tile was up. So now the job has changed.

The tiles are in great shape though they have been down since 1970. None have been broken or stained. My fiancee would like me to just relay the foyer with the old tiles. (She thinks this would be faster, since there is no cutting, and cheaper as well.)

The subfloor is diagonal planking over joists on 24 inch centers. Over this is 5/8 inch plywood. The tiles were originally laid directly on the plywood. Though I am not sure it looks like an organic mastic was used rather than a mortar. The grout lines were 3/8 inch. (The total area is about 50 square feet.) Some mastic remains on the plywood and some on the tiles.

What are the steps I should follow to reuse the old tiles? Do I need to remove all the old mastic or just anything that is loose? What type of
thinset / mastic would be best?

Thanks,
Jim
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-04-04, 10:20 AM
floorman
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
You need to get the floor as smooth as possible before putting any thing else on top of that,after you get it smooth then take a layer of 1/2 durock and screw this to the floor very 2 inches on the seams and every 4 to 6 inches in the field using mortar underneath and then taping the joints with mesh tape and the flat side of a trowel with some thinset on it.Use a 1/2 inch notch trowel,well is this slate very uneven?if so then it is ungauged slate and would make sense with the 3/8 grout joints,so use the 1/2 trowel,some of these will have to buttered on the back of the tile cause of the unevenness of the tile,don't try to get the top even cause it will never happen with ungauged slate just make sure the bottoms are well covered.post back if you need more info
 
  #3  
Old 09-04-04, 11:14 AM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 96
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
resusing slate tiles

Thanks for the quick reply.

I checked the tiles and they old have an even bottom surface.
The tops have the typical slate texture, though all are a pretty
unitform thickness. The remaining mastic is a light tan and from
one tile I examined seems to contain sand so I now think this was
not an organic mastic. However there isn't much there, so I can
probably remove all of it from the plywood using a belt sander with
coarse grit. What is on the plywood isn't think enough to pop off
using a cold chisel (i.e., I'm not getting much in the way of results
trying to scrape the stuff off the plywood).

The entrance door (insulated steel door) swings in over the tiled foyer. I just measured the clearance between the exposed plywood and the bottom of the door. I have 1 and 1/4 inches to work with. The tiles are approximately 1/4 inch thick. The duroc is 1/2 inch. That leaves another
half inch left. I know the thinset left by the 1/2 inch notched trowel will get compressed to something less than a 1/2 inch. What would you estimate the thinset under the duroc, plus the thinset the tile is bedded into will add to the total height?

Thanks again,
Jim
 
  #4  
Old 09-05-04, 06:53 AM
floorman
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
I think tops would be 5/16 maybe 3/8 but doubtful.Also need to get whatever glue off the backs of those tile that you can too.

Looks like what you have is gauged slate a lot easier to deal with when setting and that will help with the clearance of the door too.
Let us know how you make out or if there are any more questions you may have good luck!
 
  #5  
Old 09-06-04, 08:07 AM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 96
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Reusing slate tile

Thanks for another quick reply. I've gotten a little preoccupied
with Hurricane Francis as my daughter and son are in the Tampa
area. Both are fine, lots of tree damage, no power. Now I'm back
to work. Will report back when I have some news or more questions.

Given only 50 sq feet of tile I'm starting to doubt the reuse of the
slate. Doesn't seem like it would cost much to upgrade to a granite
or some other tile with a little more visual impact for a future buyer.
At least then I wouldn't have to be scraping mastic off the backs of
tile.

Thanks again.
Jim
 
  #6  
Old 09-13-04, 11:57 AM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 96
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
reusing slate tile

Never a dull moment. No sooner was Francis gone than the house
needed to be boarded up for Ivan. Looks like Ivan will pass far enough
out into the gulf to just give us a stiff breeze and rain.

As to the foyer tile, when we started to remove the original mastic
from the plywood I found it was indeed organic not a cement product.
Filled up the sandpaper quickly and was tough to remove (I've experienced
this before). We didn't get ever particle off, but what's left is really solid.
I believe the thinset under the duroc will handle the imperfections left by
the belt sander and the remains of some ridges.

But getting organic mastic off the back of the slates!!! I'm ready to say
forget it and put in new tile. Only talking about 50 sq ft, maybe 60 with
cutting waste and goofs. I've found ceramic, porcelan and marble that
ranges from $1.00 to $4.00 a sq ft. Given all the rest of the costs of this
project are pretty much the same, the cost of using new over the existing
slate is somewhere between $60 and $240, plus the rental on a tile saw
($25 for half a day at one major store). My time's not worth much but I
think we will be much happier spending the money than trying to realy the
old slate.

Stay tuned for more questions as we get into the actual installation.

Thanks,
Jim
 
  #7  
Old 10-19-04, 02:39 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 96
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Slate is out, ceramic tile is chosen

Well, we're back from cleaning up in Florida. Four hurricanes in 6 weeks.

I'm ready to start the foyer project starting with putting down
the backerboard. Do you need to acclimate backerboard to the
house conditions before installing it? If so how long would it need
to sit in the house to become acclimated?

Same question for ceramic tile. In this case 12 x 12 tile. Should it be
left to sit in the house to become acclimated before installing? How long?

The backerboard instructions say to leave a gap between boards as
well as between the boards and the wall. Then you use thin set to
embed tape over the joints. Do you put any thin set between the boards
and the wall?

This leads me to transitions to other rooms. I have three types.
The tile to entrance door threshold, tile to living room carpet, and
tile to hallway vinyl. Transition strips can do for the hall and living room.
Shoe molding for the wall baseboards. But how should I handle the
entrance door threshold? The threshold will be higher than the top of the
tile. Should the gap between the threshold and the tile be grouted? I
might anticipate someone saying this gap should be caulked to allow movement, but wont caulks collect and retain a lot of dirt than comes in at an entrance?

Thanks,
Jim
 
  #8  
Old 10-19-04, 05:59 PM
T
Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 15,834
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Reusing tile

Cleaning up tiles to be reused can be a challenging and time consuming project. Most people tend to agree that its easier to purchase new tile. Like you say, for very little money you can have a new foyer floor.

The concrete underlayment board and tile do not need to acclimate. Leave an 1/8" wide gap between each backerboard panel. Fill these joints with thinset (overlapping 2" - 4" on each side of the joint). This serves to smooth the transition between panels that are not of even heights. Embed 2" wide alkaline resistant fiberglass tape into the mortar and level it off using thinset and the flat end of your trowel. Do not fill the expansion gap near the wall.

Use silicone caulk in the 1/8" gap by door threshold. Use a color that compliments tile or use clear. Because of expansion and contraction of wood door framing, grout would crack. Soiling of caulk at thresholds tends not to be a problem because feet step over threshold and onto rug. Don't use entry door until caulk sets up to ensure no debris gets in fresh caulk. Read and follow manufacturer's instructions. Caulk should not be subject to mold and mildew unless there are moisture issues around door. Before beginning project, make sure there is a bead of caulk run to seal base of threshold.

There are a variety of transition pieces available. You might want to visit your local tile stores to see what they have available or can order. These will need to be acquired before setting tile because they will need to be set in the thinset too.

There are metal ceramic to carpet adapters to protect edge of tiles in making a transition to carpet. These are set in thinset. But it can be done without a transition piece. The edge of the tile has to be very precisely cut so that it is attractive. Carpet is pulled back for tile installation. Carpet tack strips...long, narrow wooden strips embedded with rows of short nails... are installed within about 1/4 inch of the edge of the tile. The carpet is trimmed and pulled onto them, and then pressed into the gap between the tackless and the tile, making a smooth transition.

There are also tile metal tile reducers that protect edge of tile and reduce to level of vinyl.

For pictures:

http://www.loxcreen.com/floor/bengar...r_tileedge.htm

http://www.schluter.com/english/prod...section-a.html

What type of transition pieces were used with the slate?
 
  #9  
Old 10-20-04, 07:03 AM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 96
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Reponses to question from moderator, new questions

Thanks for the information. The transitions with the slate were made with
anodized aluminum strips, nailed in the center between the two floorings and
then bent (I'm guessing) on the flooring side that was lower. The slate was grouted right up against the old entrance door threshold, which when removed started this saga by loosing a couple of pieces of slate (if they weren't already loose). I checked the links in the last reply and like the style of the transitions I see there. The images show your point of those items being embedded in the thin set of the edge tiles. In my case the concrete backerboard is going to add another half inch of height difference so I would need to pick a style that did more than just protect the edge of the tile. I'll head back to my local store while waiting for the backerboard thinset to dry.

I understand about the caulk at the entrance. Though the new threshold is caulked (silcone) to the subfloor at installation, it is a real good idea to apply another bead before the backerboard goes in. I'll also use a couple of layers of tape on the oak portion (an adjustable threshold) to protect it from the cement products. I understand leaving the gap between the backerboard and wall for expansion. Just to be clear, how should the tile along the wall be finished? Caulk it too before installing shoe molding (to keep out any moisture from future floor cleaning) or leave it open? Do you prefer a silcone caulk in these applications or a very good acrylic latex caulk?

Additional questions since I first posted this reply:

Like painting yourself into a corner as I laid out the backerboard I realized that the stairs to the second floor land in the foyer, and there is no other way to the second floor. Either we wait until the thin set is cured enough or we break the job into two parts. How long should the thin set cure beneath the backerboard before you walk on the backerboard? What drawbacks are there if we put down half the backerboard on one day then the other half after the first has cured (assuming we stop at a backerboard edge)?

Thanks again,
Jim
 

Last edited by JTeller; 10-27-04 at 06:39 AM. Reason: Keeping open questions current, Came up with additional questions
  #10  
Old 11-27-04, 08:51 AM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 96
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Slate replacement, done

The work is done and I'm back in Florida. Got the backerboard down,
and the few screws I couldn't sink flush really were not a problem when
laying the tile. Replaced the original slate with 12x12 ceramic tiles,
a nice bright white/beige sort of fake marble design. Makes the foyer
look much lighter. The transition to the vinyl in the hall was some concern.
Due to the backerboard the transitions at HD or Lowes that go under the tile
might have been a problem to close down to the vinyl. So I used a small flat
threshold instead. Looks good, works well. The LR carpet has been installed and there the transition was done with a beige/tan vinyl "T" bar. It was an aluminum strip in front of the tack strip that accepted the vinyl "T" cut to length and tapped into an extrusion in the bar. Grouting went fairly easily, we picked a color called "Canvass". Not too light and not too dark. Goes well with the carp[et color too. Used GE Silicone II in almond color to
finish between the tile and the front door threshold.

All in all everyone was happy with the results. Just hope that it lasts.

Now on to my home in Florida. Lots to do there. So I'll be starting new threads.

Thanks to all,
Jim
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: