Ceramic tile over vinyl sheeting in bath

Can ceramic or slate tile be installed directly over vinyl sheeting?

An installer from a local flooring store (that has several outlet throughout the state) just came out to give me a bid and suggested doing this. For some reason I thought that this wasn't adviced. My wife talked to the installer and she didn't get the details of whether the tile would go directly on the vinyl or if a new underlayment would be added on top first.

I have an L shaped bathroom that's about 55 sq. ft. (w/o the tub area). From an area where I can see the floor's profile the existing floor is 5/8" thick boards (possibly lap boards) then 1/2" plyboard or OSB, then 1/4" plywood underlayment, then vinyl sheeting. The house is almost 60 yrs. old, but I'm guessing that the plywood and vinyl were installed within the last 15 to 20 years.

At first I was going to do this myself, but then we decided to see the cost. However, if I can install without ripping up the old floor, that would save me a lot of time & headaches.

My other concern is that I think that there may have been a leak near the toilet at one time. I'm guessing that this needs to be investigated and fixed before tiling.

Thanks in advance.

 

Read the very first post in this forum, it's the one at the top of the first page by David Taylor. The first post, the very first one, how could you miss it.

 

You said: "The first post, the very first one, how could you miss it." Ok, I deserved that one.

What confuses me is why this was suggested in the 1st place. This place is listed in the top 50 retailers in Floor Covering Weekly, has certified professional installers, and has done the floors for many of the major, well-known commercial buildings in the area. Granted my wife could have made mistakes relaying the info to me, but I doubt she could be that far off. I'll be calling that place to get some more details.

Anything in my original post that could offer a clue as to why going over the vinyl (either directly or via a new underlayment) is being suggested?

 

Quoting a high volume of jobs while at the same time cutting-corners is the best way for a company to make a big impact in area market shares rapidly. This in turn makes them look like they know something about the industry they have chosen.

Tile being installed over vinyl is being done all over the country but that doesn't make it right. This type of installation has a very high failure rate for a lot of reasons, most of which are covered in David Taylors comments.

Floor covering Weekly's "Top Fifty" ratings are based on sales volumes not installation technique. Can you imagine the installation failures a company like this must have that they aren't so willing to brag about?

You should also know that NO-WHERE in this industry is anyone certifying tile installers, there is no such thing. Certified by who, where, based on what criteria. It's just not being done. I can also tell you that major well known commercial buildings don't use vinyl sheet-goods in very many areas, so the opportunity for them to screw that up is nil.

I'll bet your wife is right-on, that's exactly what they told her.

You guys should inquire as to whether or not these "professionals" follow any type of installation discipline sanctioned by any governing body in the industry? Ask them who the TCNA (Tile Council of North America) is. Ask them who ANSI (American National Standards Institute) is. I'm willing to bet these guys will tell you that these are towns in Wisconsin.

Going over vinyl is the cheap method and is surely to get your business and root-out the competition thereby their installation volume and sales dollar volume will remain high to get their name in a magazine. This doesn't make their procedures long-lasting. OH sure, your installation will last beyond the one-year-warranty they are probably offering you but you have to ask yourself "how long will it last"?


OK OK OK, end of rant.

You do what you want but in my thinking you should seek-out someone that knows something about this industry and the next time you run into a tile installer that claims he is "certified" you should run away very very fast.

This company is a high volume SALES company, they don't give a damn if your installation is done correctly or how long it really lasts.

 

Thanks for the advice, and I appreciate the "rant" (helps educate me).

I pretty much told my wife that if she wants to still go with these guys once we receive a bid, that I'm going to rip out the old vinyl and underlayment myself and require that the floor be prepped accordingly.

 

Very wise thinking.

I participate on multiple tile forums and we frequently run into installers and tile sellers alike that advocate installing tile over vinyl sheet goods. They defend it to the point of wanting to assinate anyone that says it shouldn't be done.

The facts are, there is one organization back east that is in a position to receive telephone complaints about shoddy ceramic tile installations and job failures from all over the country and they track this information. Ceramic or stone tile installed over vinyl sheet goods is near the top of their list of known and repeated floor tile installation failure causes.

I aggressively speak out against such installations at every opportunity. One day (not in my lifetime) this industry will have guidlines that everyone will follow and adhere to and tile installers WILL be certified. AH, UTOPIA.