level issue


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Old 10-14-06, 12:29 PM
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level issue

My batroom floor slopes 5/8" on a 4 ft. run and the joists are uneven so the toilet is tilted. I can see the joists beneath and they are sound-I cannot access them and the problem was shoddy work 25 yrs ago. All the moving and settling has been done for some time.
Please correct my idea as you see fit - Remove everything to the 3/4" plywood subfloor > lay 1/4" cement board across the floor in 2' widths and put 1/8" + 1/4" plywood shims under to make it level and firm-but don't secure it yet - > keep working across the floor till all is level and firm > then screw through the cement board and plywood into the subfloor with 1" ring neck screws . apply thinset and tile. p.s. I am leery of floor leveler because of the weight.
I just noticed "framing and sub flooring" + IF I should be there I'm sorry I don't know how to make that adjustment.
 
  #2  
Old 10-15-06, 07:32 AM
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Pete

I think you are in the right place here. The thing to keep in mind about tile is that you need a flat on plane surface not necessarily a level surface. If you want the surface to be level as well, what you propose will not work. Cement board is not structural and cannot be used that way. Cement baord needs to be set in a bed of thinset and screwed or nailed to the plywood below. Cement board needs to be supported 100% for a trouble free installation. You could use a self leveling compound (slc) over the cement board or you could skip the cement board all together and pour the slc a little thicker. You can tile right over the slc.

A word of caution. You need to make sure that whatever has caused the floor to be that out of level is no longer a problem and there is no more movement going on. You also need to make sure that your floor can support a ceramic tile installation. Can you post back with the size of your joists, the on center spacing of the joists and the unsupported span from below.
 
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Old 10-15-06, 07:46 AM
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uneven floor piks

Originally Posted by HeresJohnny
Pete

I think you are in the right place here. The thing to keep in mind about tile is that you need a flat on plane surface not necessarily a level surface. If you want the surface to be level as well, what you propose will not work. Cement board is not structural and cannot be used that way. Cement baord needs to be set in a bed of thinset and screwed or nailed to the plywood below. Cement board needs to be supported 100% for a trouble free installation. You could use a self leveling compound (slc) over the cement board or you could skip the cement board all together and pour the slc a little thicker. You can tile right over the slc.

A word of caution. You need to make sure that whatever has caused the floor to be that out of level is no longer a problem and there is no more movement going on. You also need to make sure that your floor can support a ceramic tile installation. Can you post back with the size of your joists, the on center spacing of the joists and the unsupported span from below.
>>Because the design of the joists is peculiar is it possible for me to send a photo or two to this thread? If so how do I go about attaching photos? Thank you.
 
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Old 10-15-06, 07:56 AM
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I not sure how to attach pictures here. Maybe someone else who knows about attaching pictures can chime in.
 
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Old 10-15-06, 09:42 AM
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even floor

I just noticed no attachments allowed-thanx for sticking with me. I'll try to be brief. There are 2x4's that lie flat and rest on the sills - they are 16" apart(I'm used to seeing 2x 8's set on their sides). Beneath them are another set of suspended 2x4's attached to the ones above with metal hangars ?I guess for a finished ceiling b/c they do not rest on the sills. This is what I see in the rough workroom, BUT, these 2x4's rest on the inside partion of this room THEN they now keep going-or are longer as the room ends and the rest of the celler begins. I can not see much but they appear to run into the other side which has a finished ceiling-there is one boxed in ?lallycolumn.
At the point where the suspension system changes from the workroom (sill to partion) to the long run of sill to finished celler, that is where the low side of the bathroom above begins. That accounts for the slope- the two sections don't matchup. Regarding the eneven joists that cause the hi and lo spots(especially to tilt the toilet) it seems they were either installed not level to each other or bowed with time-26 yr old townhouse. The joists, sills partitions etc as far as I can see are 'good'. The subfloor is 3/4" plywood.
Could I use my original idea of shimming under 1/2" plywood instead of cement board, then when level and firm and scewed to the subfloor, put thin set and cement board on top? Or touch up the leveled, even plywood with a light coat of slc and use peel and stick?
Alot of slc scares me with this 'shaky' suspension re weight. Thanx again.
 
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Old 10-15-06, 05:55 PM
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Pete

Im still havin trouble understanding what you have there. Are you saying your floor joists are 2x4s? No way this is gonna work if thats the case. You need to do something to beef up that floor structure. If Im not understanding you correctly maybe you can give it another try. Also if you can find another site to post your pictures to you should be able to post a link here so we can see em.
 
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Old 10-16-06, 11:47 AM
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florr uneven

Yes, they are 2/4's at 16" - gr 8 t construction! No wonder the floors are uneven. I'll look for a site that accepts attachments and let you know if I find one.
Btw, if I stay away from ceramic and slc, would my idea about shiming sections of plywood till level be ok? I could use vinyl or stick and peel and this would not involve much weight. Over 1/2' plywood I could finish with wood filler? Thanx for the help.
 
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Old 10-17-06, 01:21 PM
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Hi Pete - got your pm

I dont know what the requirements if any are for vinyl or peel & stick tile. I wouldnt be comfortable with the framing of that floor under any circumstances. I would think that the slope will continue to get worse unless you can correct the framing issues.

I dont think that your plan to shim 1/2" plywood over the 3/4" subfloor is a good one. I think that unless you correct the framing you will be facing this same problem in a few years.
 
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Old 10-17-06, 01:31 PM
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floor

I appreciate your getting back to me. I'm going to persue this as you said so I can know where I stand literally and figuratively. Thank you.
 
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Old 10-17-06, 03:44 PM
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Exclamation I need floor help also! it is not level...yet

We have a bathroom that had a water leak. Part of the sub floor needed replaced, so we hired someone to do that. The area was not wider than 18" and ran the width of the bathtub. Now it is time to put the floor down and we found that the people who built the sugar shack put vinyl down over the sub floor. The area that was fixed is lower than the vinyl. I thought we could use leveler (whatever the stuff in Menards is that you sand until level), then put plywood over the entire floor, so defects don't show. My hubby thinks this is not the way to go, and wants to have someone do a new sub floor. I am so confused!! I would appreciate any advice on how to fix a floor.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 06:24 AM
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You dont say here what kind of flooring your putting down ceramic tile, natural stone, vinyl? Soo what kind of floor are you putting down.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 03:08 PM
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Floor leveler

Hi-
Whoops. We will be putting down vinyl.
Thanks
 
 

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