tile on shower surround

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  #1  
Old 01-08-07, 10:09 AM
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tile on shower surround

hello

i had some massive leaking around a shower stall that has ceramic tile on the walls/ceiling and a PVC pan. i tore out the old tile and found the leaking mostly took place at the threshold.

one of the problems is that the pan is a neo-angle which seems to have a channel on two sides to set the cement board and/or tile into to make it waterproof. the problem is the front two sides of the pan don't have these channels and the way this shower stall is built, there are stud walls framed around all 4 sides of this neo-angle pan.

so, two sides seem really susceptible to leaking since they have no channel.

what can i do to make channels on the the other two sides? maybe use some plastic corner bead and install in with caulking so it doesn't leak, then put the board and tile over it?

any advice is welcome. i am a rookie.
 
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Old 01-08-07, 01:27 PM
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Does the pan look something like this?

http://www.faucetdirect.com/mediaBase/specifications/SpecSheet_238.pdf
 
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Old 01-08-07, 01:52 PM
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yes, exactly like that but i don't think it is american standard
 
  #4  
Old 01-08-07, 06:50 PM
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Robert

This kind of shower pan is made such that the back walls are to be tiled and the sides and front receive a three sided glass enclosure. The sides of this type pan are not made for framed walls and tile and you have already found out.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 06:19 AM
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thanks for the info.

i completely understand that this type of shower pan is not made for more than 2 framed walls. however, i have 4 framed walls.

what can i do? do you think if i bring the cbu down tight and caulk underneath and use a moisture barrier behind that it might work?

or is there a better solution?
 
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Old 01-09-07, 06:45 AM
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This is very tough problem.
It is a no win deal so you have to adapt and modify.
Schluter makes a product called Kerdi.You can lay it over the cbu and lip it down so the tile will set on it.You can apply it with a unmodified thin set.I would still put the bead of silicone behind it at the bottom then leave a 1/2 overhang,then set your tile on the Kerdi,cut back the kerdi to the tile face.This pan will not be level so start one tile above the bottom level it,let it dry.Then cut in the bottom tile as directed.Make it a good fit so you have full pressure on the lipped Kerdi and your grout line still matches.
Remember CBU will wick moisture. Hardibacker is moisture resisitant but not waterproof.Kerdi is waterproof.
When you are all done put a bead of unsanded grout caulk around the botton tiled area and corners.Let it all dry good.
Thin set takes three days to start curing.
Unmodified is chemical set it needs no air to set. Modified is a latex base it needs air to dry.Do not use any mastic in this application it will fail.

http://www.schluter.com/english/products/2002/sectionf/kerdi/801-index.html

This may give you a broader spectrum of what to do next.
Good Luck
 
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Old 01-09-07, 07:12 AM
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How will you bond the kerdi to the plastic pan. This will continue to be a weak link in that water will continue to get through the joint where the kerdi wall meets the plastic pan. You need to be able to make a watertight seal there that will last. Caulk, silicone or whatever will eventually fail there.

Consider removing that pan and making a custom mud neo angle shower pan or a kerdi pan.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 07:57 AM
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The silicone would be intended behind the kerdi at the wall/pan gap.
Good silicone has a half-life of 15 years.

Of course the alternate is replace the pan, however, is that an option?

Schluter/Kerdi also has the ultimate pan and drain system.
Wedi has one as well.
A mudset shower pan can be a task for a pro, few homeowners will attempt this.
Better get the checkbook out if you go this way.

The options are expansive if the pan is coming out.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 08:04 AM
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i had thought about taking out the pan.

the problem is: it is framed with 4 stud walls because above it runs the ductwork for the HVAC. so, the walls need to stay.

i am wondering how the glass enclosure that normally sits on 2 sides of the pan is waterproof? what makes it waterproof? could i do something similar with the cbu?

the more questions i ask, the more intimidated i get with this.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 08:07 AM
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The options are less expensive than making an investment in a new shower that will fail in a short period of time. To rely on a bead of silicone simply doesnt cut it with me. You'll be ripping down these walls again in not time at all. You have already taken down the walls. Replace the pan. By the way there are many diy'ers on this site who have done their own mudset shower pans successfully.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 08:17 AM
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i agree with you but....

i am not saying i am going to do it this way but wouldn't i have silicone under the cbu, a vapor barrier behind that lipping under the cbu and then another silicone bead under the tile....

so that would be 2 or 2 1/2 layers of protection.

i might be willing to try the mudset pan... i have seen the link for it on DIY.

i just don' have a lot of plumbing experience but i have a great deal of experience doing other stuff around the house including putting in a new kitchen and last year i put in my own inground pool. i am not bragging i am just saying that i have jumped into some pretty big projects with good results so far so doing a mud pan is probably something i can handle.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 08:42 AM
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Mix a 4-1 ratio, sand to portland cement not to hard not to soft.You should be able to ball the mud up in your hand. If you set a pool you can do this.Some say leave weep holes open The pros in this areas say weep holes are not required to be left open, the mud mixed properly will allow the weeping that will occur.

If you mudset your own pan still consider the Kerdi option for wall water proofing. I will allow the Kerdi to overlap the pan about 3-5 inches. Cut and fold your corners in and mud set em down.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 09:19 AM
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Some good reading on pans and kerdi pans

http://www.ontariotile.com/kerdi-shower3.html

http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html

If you put in your own inground pool, this will be a piece of cake. The pool must have been a fun project for you. You can definintely do this.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 10:00 AM
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i wouldn't say that putting the pool in was "fun" but it was rewarding and i learned alot about how different systems (plumbing, electrical, etc) work and how they work together.

however, it was the hottest summer on record and i basically was by myself the whole time so putting in a 18x36 pool was hard.

but, i just have to keep reminding myself that it is worth it when we get to spend the summmer swimming and having fun.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 01:14 PM
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Hey Robert - Ill come out to Indiana and do that shower for you if you come to NJ and put a pool in my yard. 18' by 36' is fine. Good deal ehhh.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 01:33 PM
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if you can do the mud pans, just build yourself a big enough one to swim in and you'll be all set! ha-ha
 
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Old 01-09-07, 07:05 PM
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Indiana?
what part?
I am down on the Ohio.
 
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Old 01-10-07, 08:06 AM
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danville. just west of indianapolis.
 
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