More ?'s about granite tile counter top install

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  #1  
Old 01-31-07, 07:56 AM
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More ?'s about granite tile counter top install

1) Going to lay granite tiles for counter top - can I use an undermounted sink with tiles?

2) I thouhgt I read somewhere that i didn't need backer board for my backsplash - I figured I would cut the 12x12 granite tile in half and use that. Do I need special thinset?

3) Groute - I have heard of people butting the tiles against each other and then using an epoxy or silicone as a grout - can anyone provide their experiances with this and the products they used? Thsi is better as it will resist staining and what nto right? It will have to be clear/beige/very light brown in color to not stick out like a soar thumb since the tile is close to this Kasmier gold: http://www.marblemaster.com/granite/granite_tile/Kashmire_Gold_Granite_Tile.html

5) We are doing this to help sell our condo and am wondering how much time I should plan on. I have some experiance with laying tile (did my kitchen and two bathroom floors) and althouhg I'm not totally clueless - I am a DIY'r. The counter is about 30 sq/ft...

6) alos, my wife is 3 months pregnant (reason for the move) - should I kick her out of the house or inlist her help? I know some of the chemicals I have to use to clean/strip the laminte cabinets before painting is highly toxic so she will have to leave for that, was wondering if it is the same case with the epoxy/silcone grout stuff.

Thanks for everyone help in advance!
 
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Old 01-31-07, 12:14 PM
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1 You can use an undermount sink with tile. You can route out the plywood to allow for the sink and then tile over the edge of the sink with a bull nose tile. The key is to route out the plywood just enough so that the sink will line up with the top of the cement board and the tile will sit flat on the cement board and sink. Caulk the joint where the sink meets the tile.

2 You dont need any special backer board for the backsplash. You can set the granite directly to the drywall with a modified white thinset. Make sure theres no loose paint on the walls. Sand and wipe down the walls to take any gloss, grease dirt etc off the walls first.

3 I dont know where this idea of butting tiles to one another comes from. Grout joints serve many purposes. For starters, grout joints will allow for some variation in the height of the edges of the tiles. If the tiles were butted, they have to be perfectly, perfectly, perfectly flat to one another. Take my work for it, they wont be. When tiles are butted, you cant fill the tiny crevices between them and all sorts of food, gook etc will bet in those crevices in no time. I wouldnt try anything less than a 1/8" grout joint. You can use regular unsanded grout. Use a good quality sealer on the grout. You dont need epoxy grout here, and silicone should not be used instead of grout.

4 Hey this ones easy - there is no #4

5 30 sq feet is not much. You should be able to demo that laminate countertop, put in two layers of plywood and cement board with the necessary cutout for the sink in one day. The tiling and grouting for this could be done in one day. If you give yourself an extra day or two youll be ok. Your granite tile probably will not come with bullnose so you may have to seek out a stone fabricator that can bullnose or profile them for you.


6 Come on - give her a break. What would you have her due, lug bags of thinset and boxes of tile. Give her some money and send her shopping for the day. I though we got rid of that laminate countertop in the other thread you have going. Why are you going to paint it?
 
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Old 01-31-07, 01:00 PM
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Ha Ha - I figrued I would be good exersise if she did all the heavy lifting! No, actually she wants to help and we want to get it done ASAP so I figured 4 hands are better then two so...

We are painting the laminte cabinets and ripping out the old laminte counter top and putting in a nice grantie tile one (wiht the help of everyone here of course :-)a swell as painting the walls...

I just got back from a granite/marbel place - $5 to bullnose the tile. They have a great selection of colors too. Just to bad they are twice the cost of the Big box store. Guess I'm gonna have to let the wife decide if it;s goign to be the perfect color over the perfect price!

As for butting them together and the epoxy grout, I read this on another forum and have seen it in other places as well:

"The tiles are butted together. This means that regular grout will not adhere, so you must use epoxy grout. Epoxy seeps into the narrow gaps and becomes hard plastic. It then stays put.

Epoxy does not lose color, it is resistant to chemicals, and it does not absorb anything. In itself, these are very important qualities on a countertop. Many people in this forum seems to think that epoxy grout is a big pain, so I´m going to delve a little bit.

The grout we bought from Lowe´s -only place which offered manageable consumer packages which make just under two pounds of grout.

After mixing, epoxy gradually thickens. You have around 45 minutes to distribute it -which is plenty of time for two pounds. We deposited the grout on the joints using our gloved fingers, then we let it seep in and harden. For the vertical joints, we waited until it was a little hard. You have to watch until it hardens, because it can flow and leave gaps.

You remove the excess when the grout is solid, but soft enough that you can scratch it out with your nail. In the first attempt we made the mistake of removing it when still soft, and too much of it came off. Two hours after mixing is around the right time. What works better is first removing the bulk of the excess with a razor blade, and then wiping off the rest with a wet (not soaked) sponge.

And yes, epoxy grout is messier than regular epoxy. But before it dries out it can be easily removed with a damp cloth -Clorox wipes come very handy. After it hardens, you need a scraping blade. We always found some small pieces left on the countertop which had to be scraped off. Anyway, cover your floors with a plastic sheet. If your hands get dirty, there is no way to remove all of it -it came out in a few days. Use gloves.

The trick is to take it easy and proceed in small steps. The job is more boring than difficult.

Epoxy needs seven days to cure. Afterwards, we cleaned the countertop with an specialty cleaner and we sealed it with Teflon based sealant. Protect the granite before sealing -we accidentally stained it with oil, and it was hard to clean with acetone. After sealing, we have not had any more problems with stains. I would recommend applying sealant twice, just in case. Some granite varieties are not porous so they don´t need sealing, but who can tell?"

hers were I saw it:http://www.infotile.com.au/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000727-2.html
 
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Old 01-31-07, 01:09 PM
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Also saw this on the same website:

Butt the seams together and grout them with unsanded grout. Each tile has a 1/32nd bevel on the edge. When you butt them together it makes a 1/16th seam.

The primary result you are looking for on a grantie countertop is a flat and smooth surface. As you are setting, lay a quarter flat on the surface and run it over the seams with your finger. The quarter will snag or bump at irregular seams. This will tell you where to make fine adjustments to smooth out your job.

no idea why you woudl use a quarter instead fo a level but What do i know!
 
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Old 01-31-07, 01:10 PM
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Some of this makes no sense to me. My experience with epoxy grout is that its sanded and you will not be able to get it into almost non existent joints. The smaller the grout joints the more difficult it will be to get each tile perfectly on plane next to one another. A little lippage is not noticable with a 1/8" grout joint but will stand out like a sore thumb with butted tile. My recollection of the instructions on the epoxy grout indicates that if you use it in joints 1/8" or smaller it will have a rougher texture look to it as well. This is due to it having sand in it. I dont have any instructions to look at right now so this is not an exact quote but its the general idea. Can you give me a link to that article that you are quoting?
 
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Old 01-31-07, 01:22 PM
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Heres the data on SpectraLock Pro epoxy grout. See page two in the middle where they talk about joints 1/8" and smaller.

http://www.laticrete.com/?gclid=CO6Q9Mq8i4oCFQtmSgod4wTlfA
 
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Old 01-31-07, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by HeresJohnny View Post
Some of this makes no sense to me. My experience with epoxy grout is that its sanded and you will not be able to get it into almost non existent joints. The smaller the grout joints the more difficult it will be to get each tile perfectly on plane next to one another. A little lippage is not noticable with a 1/8" grout joint but will stand out like a sore thumb with butted tile. My recollection of the instructions on the epoxy grout indicates that if you use it in joints 1/8" or smaller it will have a rougher texture look to it as well. This is due to it having sand in it. I dont have any instructions to look at right now so this is not an exact quote but its the general idea. Can you give me a link to that article that you are quoting?
I read got it from here (http://www.infotile.com.au/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000727-2.html) but I have seen it other places.

They make the epoxy option ssound great, and if you put what you have said aside, how do you get the epoxy to fill such a tiny gap with out getting it all over the tile. Epoxy wont just wipe up right?
 
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Old 01-31-07, 01:35 PM
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Ha ha Ha, hey Heres Jonhey, it also says "Not for use on floors and base areas in veterinary clinics, kennels, or in industrial applications exposed to high concentrations of food and mineral acids or areas exposed to high temperatures. Use LATAPOXY® 2000 Industrial Grout for such applications.

UmmI would say a kitchen counter is subject to hihc contrations or food and high timperatures....

I;m going to check out the latapoxy 2000...

Edit - the souns liek it would do the trick but I'm confused - it says "Not for use with Bright White or light colored grouts." It is a grout!?!?!?!? Do they mean light colord tile? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
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Old 01-31-07, 01:39 PM
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Hey this is getting confusing. You didnt tell me you lived in a kennel. Just kidding.
 
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Old 01-31-07, 01:46 PM
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Ha Ha ha - seriously, what does this company have against dogs!

I do have a dog but i dont; expect her to walk the countertops much so I'm not to concerned!

Like I said, the idea of butting the tile together and using epoxy sounds good btu I'm not sure how well it works or how easy it is to do...
 
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Old 01-31-07, 01:52 PM
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Latapoxy 2000 is designed for heavy duty commercial use. Its sold in bigger units and will be very expensive as well. Im confused here. You were going to tile over a laminate countertop, and now you are going to use latapoxy 2000 to grout the granite countertop. Use a regular unsanded grout and youll be fine. For $25 you can get yourself a good quart of sealer and be done with it.
 
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