Best Mud to Use In Bench for Marble

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Old 07-05-07, 06:12 PM
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Best Mud to Use In Bench for Marble

I'm getting ready to make a custom corner shower bench, similar to the "Better Bench" 24" unit, but just framed out of wood filled with mud to help with the angle on top.

My questions:

1) What mud would be best to use in the bench so that the thinset/marble adheres well? The Tile shop said their floor mix would be perfectly fine for the job. I justwanted to double-chech.

2) Would you mount the bench (plan to use 8 3/8" lag bolts) before the durashield is up or after it goes up?

3) What would you cover the bottom (plywood surface) of the bench with to protect it? I was thinking a piece of denshield with Pro-Shield HPG rolled over it.

Thanks In Advance!
 
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Old 07-05-07, 08:55 PM
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Building a proper shower is a complicated time consuming job. I have no idea what method you're thinking of using. I would also need to know how the floor is being built, and the floor/wall intersection, etc. I don't think you've gotten good advice.

Why not go to: www.northamericantile.com where you will find many step by step articles with pictures. Study them then return with your questions.

It may be too late, but I think the best way to build a shower is using the Schluter Kerdi products.

Jaz
 
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Old 07-06-07, 05:42 PM
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Sounds like your trying to reinvent the wheel and have chosen some very bad materials to be used in a wet area. I'll bet if you added all the time you researched and then built this, the "better bench" would have been cheaper. These are tested and proven products. There has been a ton of money poured into a product for testing prior to going on the market.
Jazman is also correct about using Schluter Systems for a shower.
 
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Old 07-06-07, 06:49 PM
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I plan to use dens-shield with pro-guard HPG isolation membrane throughout, then set marble with pro-bond.

Hope that helps.
 
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Old 07-06-07, 07:34 PM
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I don't know the method that you are talking about. Can you name the TCNA (Tile Council of North America) method number. Also Pro-Bond seems to be a polyurethane glue from Elmers. Maybe the name is similar?

Who thought of this method and these materials? Why would you want to apply a waterproofing membrane over Den-Shield? Dens already has a vapor barrier on its face, we do not want 2 vapor barriers of the same surface.

Jaz
 
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Old 07-06-07, 09:01 PM
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A better bench with a 24" front would cost under $50. Add in the cost of a 40 lb bag of sand mix cement and you would be done. Why risk it with wood, it wont be any stronger. Better benches can support up to 300 lbs on the triangles.
 
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Old 07-07-07, 01:03 AM
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I'm a DIY'er, so I won't have TCNA info. Sorry.

Pro-Bond - nope, it's not elmers glue.
http://www.tileshop.com/products/detail.asp?categoryID=5&subcategoryID=17&familyID=533&Record_ID=4227&pageIndex=1

The method I'm using is what the Tile Store (see link above) uses. I went to their Sat AM class, and went over it a few more times with their people, as well as watched their custom shower DVD and read 2 books...and read everything in the link above now. I presume a large dedicated tile chain store would only be using approved methods, but crazier things have happened. I know the 3 salesmen I've dealt with are all tile contractors as well.

I may go ahead and just get the better bench, though I still like the idea of doing things custom (would prefer an angle on bottom), but it's certainly not worth it if it gets moldy.

Most troubling to me is the whole Dens-Shield thing. Listening to anyone at the Tile Store and GP's website the stuff sounds like you should use it to make submarines, per the link above I have a lot less confidence in it. Right now I'm thinking about using it only for the walls in the rest of the bathroom, and possibly as backing for the floor?? what would you suggest as being ideal for shower backing?
 
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Old 07-08-07, 09:21 AM
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Unfortunately, if you want to build a shower that will hold up for many years and one that is built correctly according to all manufacturers' and tile associations recommendations, you have to NOT listen to most retailers and most tile installers. You have to do some research and consult with people that are NOT trying to sell you something.

There are several good methods of building a good shower. You have to choose a method and follow every step. I think the #1 step that is done wrong is how the shower floor is made. I'm referring to the lack of a pre-slope UNDER the membrane. Number 2, the use of gypsum wall boards and mastic on walls.

I will in the future only build Kerdi showers, it costs a little more, but unlike regular showers, it'll be completely water tight and mold free.

Jaz
 
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Old 07-08-07, 09:23 AM
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personally I think the Dens-shield will be fine as long as you tape and thinset the seams and corners and thinset over the slightly countersunk screws. You dont want the innercore gypsum exposed to water so a coating of a paint on waterproofing like Redgard would be a good idea over the areas coated with the tape and or thinset.
 
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Old 07-08-07, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Unfortunately, if you want to build a shower that will hold up for many years and one that is built correctly according to all manufacturers' and tile associations recommendations, you have to NOT listen to most retailers and most tile installers. You have to do some research and consult with people that are NOT trying to sell you something.
To be frank, I'm not sure if it's right to make blanket statements like that. I don't doubt the Kerdi stuff is a superior system, but implying that retailers don't care if you make a quality shower isn't really fair. these guys have made a LOT of custom showers and are always happy to talk me through anything over the phone. They certainly don't have that attitude that they've made the sale and are washing their hands of me at this point.

Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
There are several good methods of building a good shower. You have to choose a method and follow every step. I think the #1 step that is done wrong is how the shower floor is made. I'm referring to the lack of a pre-slope UNDER the membrane. Number 2, the use of gypsum wall boards and mastic on walls.
I was just roughly decribing the wall method i planned. I'm still using a sloped pre-pan/PVC membrane/mud pan/thinset/mosaic tile on the base of the shower. BTW my floor/substrate is a slab with studs every 16".

And do you have first-hand experience with Dens-Shield failing in showers? I ask b/c I hear a lot of confidence from some in it's use and their experience with it, and am wondering how much of the doubting is just paranoia that gypsum is hidden behind the outside...more of a theoretical and not practical concern. I'm rambling here, but I hope you know what I'm getting at.

What would you use to lay the tile rather than the Pro-Bond recommended to me?
 
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Old 07-08-07, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Tileguybob View Post
personally I think the Dens-shield will be fine as long as you tape and thinset the seams and corners and thinset over the slightly countersunk screws. You dont want the innercore gypsum exposed to water so a coating of a paint on waterproofing like Redgard would be a good idea over the areas coated with the tape and or thinset.
This seems in line with the direction I find myself moving.

I presume I could use the Pro-Shield HPG in lieu of the Redgard? They seem to be similar products (roll/paint-on membranes).

You only recommend the Redgard over the seams/screws b/c the issue mentioned above with potentially having two vapor barriers with dens-shield + redgard, correct?

What about the Dens-Shield as backer for the floor tiles? it's nice and light, but of course that makes me worry for the floor. I'm not sure if my worries ar unfounded.

Last question: I built a curb out of 3 2X4's and folded lath over it with the plans of mudding over that (modified floor mix) then did my pre-pan. My concern is that I didn't lay any felt paper over the curb and now the lath is in the drying pre-pan. Do I need to get felt paper in there, or is my curb going to be okay?
 
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Old 07-08-07, 11:45 AM
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http://www.ontariotile.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000114

Answered some of my questions. It looks like I won't be using the dens-shield for the floor. I guess I'll try to find some hardibacker for that.
 
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Old 07-08-07, 03:01 PM
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My curb that I'm a bit concerned about. The pre-pan (sloped) is in the background.



Question:
1) Do I mud it in and then put the liner over it in that order?

2) Should I have put some felt paper on the wood first? Harry on the ont tile forum seemed okay with 1" and 1/2" mud on the top and sides respectively. Of course I'll slope the curb as well.
 
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