Tiling

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  #1  
Old 10-02-07, 09:32 PM
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Tiling

Hello I am about to tackle my very first tiling job and of course want to make sure that everything is done right, and therefore am looking for you professional experience.

Let me explain the project:

My house was built in 1990 and is on a crawl space.
It has a "mud room" by the garage, which consists of a 10 x 20 area that has a utility closet, and two more closets for storage and washer and dryer.
It used to have vinyl flooring that was outdated and in need of repair.
Also being on a septic system, sewage backed up into this area last April.
Also the utility closet had become too cramped with furnace, water heater, water softener, and ice maker.
The drain hoses and pipes must not have been able to drain properly into the drain therefore there has been some water damage in that area.

Now to what I have done so far.
I relocated the water softener and ice maker to make more room and put the doors back on the closet.
I pulled up the vinyl flooring and thin plywood that was underneath it.
There currently is one layer of plywood which appears to be 1/2" thick.
I have treated the wet area with bleach and let it dry for a couple of weeks.

Now in the utility closet there appears to be a dip where the water softener used to sit.
So far I have not pulled out the water heater to let the flooring underneath it dry.

I guess my questions for now are how do I prep the surface, meaning backerboard etc.

Please help me out and ask for any more details if needed.



THANKS A LOT!
 
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  #2  
Old 10-03-07, 12:11 PM
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For starters if you really have a 1/2" plywood subfloor you'll have to add more plywood. 1/2" plywood is not sufficient for any tile installation and adding cement board will not change that. For a single layer of plywood you must have a minimum of 5/8" and it must be t&g not square edge ply. Thats the bare minimum and most pros will tell you that they would add more plywood. More plywood is always better.

Replace any damaged, rotted delaminated subflooring before you go any further. If its really 1/2" add a minimum of 5/8" plywood over that. The additional plywood should be exterior grade bc or better. If you are not sure how this should be done just ask.

Then you can add cement board or an isolation membrane to set your tile to. Come back and ask any question you have about this as well.

Last but not least what kind of tile will you be using, ceramic or natural stone. If your house was built in 1990 its likely you are ok for ceramic but not likely its ok for natural stone. What size are your floor joists, what is there on center spacing and what is their unsupported span. Very important stuff.

You have an edge here in that you came to ask questions before you get started. Thats good.
 
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Old 10-03-07, 01:51 PM
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An excellent post by Johnny. We're all ears.

Jaz
 
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Old 10-03-07, 04:06 PM
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Thanks a lot johnny!

Ok so I definitely need to add more plywood.
I have read somewhere you need 1 1/4" total of subfloor and underlayment.

I guess I thought I'd add 1/2" Durock CementBoard, that gives a total of 1".

So do I need to add 1/4" plywood more and then 1/2" durock over that? Do I understand this correctly???
I am afraid of it all adding up to much and having a big gap/transition to the carpet area.

What is t&g, and what is square edge ply????

Here is what I want to do:
I am using 16"x16" and 6"x6" tiles from lowes.
Here's the link:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...046&lpage=none
I would like to make a pattern with it called hopscotch/pin wheel (not sure which term is used).

Thanks for the great answers
 
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Old 10-03-07, 07:09 PM
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T& G plywood is plywood that interlock with each other. Square is the plywood that jus has a foctory flat edge.
Your floor should be 1 1/4 inches thick exterior grade plywood. I have 1 1/4 in my kitchen through laundry room straight plywood. Just make sure you screw it down every 6" to 8" apart. My foyer is tie over 1" plywood. WHen I redo the fllor I will add Plywood only to bring it closer to the other floor. The foyer was laid by a tile Company 19 years old and the kitchen floor is bout 8 years old and did that myself. One big thing when laying out your floor is not to have small pieces in areas where you ahve lots of traffic. so dry lay the floor 1 row in all directions from center to see how it falls.
 
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Old 10-03-07, 08:15 PM
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ok thanks for the input.

Allright I had two different guys looking at my project and I believe they were going to put down cement board over the subfloor and then the tile. I am afraid that adding too much plywood will bring up the floor too much. The adjacent room has carpet and 1/2" plywood under it. I really would not like a big step up into the laundryroom.
I guess I am just afraid of what it will look like in the end and with it being my first tiling job I just want to get it right.

What is your input on that?

Thanks again.
 
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Old 10-03-07, 09:20 PM
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I give you credit for at least asking question here about your project, but it seems as if you don't really care if it's done right or not. How can you not know whether or not the "two guys" were going to install cement board or not? Sorry, but you seem more concerned about not having a small step at the doorways than anything else.

You do not compromise installation methods so they'll come up to any certain heights. You want all the rooms to be the same....install the same flooring thru out the house like they do in many homes.

First, I will bet that your subfloor is NOT 1/2", I say it's at least 5/8" and probably 3/4" thick. You need to take the time to find out. Also answer Johnny's questions concerning how your subfloor system is built. Joists size, species, grade, spacing, unsupported span etc.

For the record, the more plywood the better of course, but the 1 1/8- 1 1/4" requirement is if you're installing tiles directly to the plywood, which we do not recommend. Most CBU manufacturers claim that 5/8" plywood is enough as a subfloor as long as the entire system meets L360 deflection for ceramic and porcelain tiles. Most of us also believe that 5/8" is not enough, we want to see at least 3/4" ext. glue and t&g of course. This is why your answers on how the floor is built is important.

You seem to be implying that you are going to do the work yourself. If so, what's with those two guys?

Jaz
 
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Old 10-04-07, 07:35 AM
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If your subfloor is really 1/2" then you need to add at least 5/8" over it in my opinion. 1/4" plywood should not be used in any tile installation. Not enough plys and more prone to delamination. 3/8" is minimum, but you need more than that over a 1/2" subfloor. I agree with Jaz in that its likely that if you check again you'll find out that its probably at least 5/8".

If you are concerned about transitional heights to other flooring, then tile probably isnt the right flooring for you. Floors need to be rock solid to accept tile. Anything less and you will have an expensive failure on your hands. Once you get into the project and know exactly where you stand, there will be height transition solutions we can advise you on. While the tile makes the job look good, what goes under the tile will determine how long it will last. Any movement will result in cracked tile and grout.

Under no circumstances can you put cement board over 1/2" plywood and expect that tile job to survive. No way. Cement board, is not structural. Its purpose to create a good bonding surface for thinset and tile. Your floor needs to be solid enough before any cement board goes down, and plywood will do that for you.

You still havent answered the questions in my first reply. If you really have 1/2" subfloor, there may very well be problems with the joist system as well. So answer the questions so we can help you.
 
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