Hardibacker Installation - PHOTOS

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Old 02-10-08, 01:47 PM
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Hardibacker Installation - PHOTOS

Hi all...still plugging away at bathroom and am getting closer to the flooring (probably porcelain for added strength but maybe ceramic). Total bathroom is 8' x 8' but area to be tiled will be apx 8' x 5 1/2'.

I know for Hardibacker, the minimum requirments are 5/8". Right now in the bathroom, the subfloor is 1/2" plywood. When I demoed the bathroom, there was another 1/2" on top of it that all the little tiles were on. Was easier to take up the whole thing and toss than break each tile.

I'll be honest, the 1/2" subfloor right now is not the strongest in some spots. Floor is 30 years old.

The problem is right now from the 1/2" plywood subfloor to the hardwood in the hallway...I have 3/4" to work with. Photo link below.

http://www.ipga.com/bathroom.asp

Since I have 3/4" to work with - the Hardibacker is 1/4", the tile is 1/4" - could I not add above the current sub another 1/4" plywood and level. Would that suffice?

Any suggestions/recommendations and THANKS!
 
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Old 02-10-08, 03:48 PM
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Who says you only have 3/4" to work with? No you don't!

What you've got to work with is to build the subfloor so that your new tile floor will last and look good for a long time.

Forget the minimum standard of 5/8" thick plywood, that is JUNK. Actually there is more to it than just that. The spec for tile say that the subfloor system can have no more deflection then L360 including both live and dead load. This is for ceramic and porcelain, natural stone is L720 max deflection. It also used to say, "when tested using a 300 lb. load." This was recently changed to say the floor has to meet IRC code. It's gotten even more confusing than it used to be.

The fact is that most deflection failures happen between the joists due to lack of enough subfloor strength. I've work over 5/8" subfloors, they are pretty scary!

Your original floor was built to have a layer of 1/2", with a 5/8" layer over it. That is a decent floor if both layers are in good shape and well fastened.

Quarter inch plywood is useless when you're trying to add strength. It adds virtually nothing. You're making the mistake of doing a little math and coming to a total. That won't work. For example: I believe that a sheet of 1/2" + a sheet of 5/8" is about the same same one sheet of 3/4" plywood. For sure two sheets of 1/2" are NOT as strong as one 3/4" layer.

Build the floor right, then handle the transition as necessary.

Jaz
 
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Old 02-10-08, 04:12 PM
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I've been in trouble lately on some other sites so I ain't sayin' nothin' except.....



Jaz is correct!


Sorry, didn't mean to speak out!
 
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Old 02-10-08, 04:13 PM
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Jaz, I meant 3/4" to keep flush with the hardwood where the floor and hallway meets. I know I can go higher. Your suggesting a add 5/8" plywood over the current 1/2"?

If you think that is about the same strenght as 3/4" plywood...why not pull up the old 1/2" (would have to take out the new bathtub but not a big deal) and just put down 3/4".

I'm guessing adding 5/8" to the open areas that are going to get the tile would be easier???
 
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Old 02-10-08, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
I've been in trouble lately on some other sites so I ain't sayin' nothin' except.....

Jaz is correct!

Sorry, didn't mean to speak out!
Bud...you are fine with me. I have no issues with whatever you say/said.

I never take it personally...how is someone with little expereince (in this case flooring) suppose to learn the correct way? We learn from the people/experts who have done the job.

Bring it!!!
 
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Old 02-10-08, 06:21 PM
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I know exactly what you meant by:

Jaz, I meant 3/4" to keep flush with the hardwood where the floor and hallway meets. I know I can go higher. Your suggesting a add 5/8" plywood over the current 1/2"?

Do either thing you mentioned. We would like to see at least 3/4" of subfloor grade plywood with a exposure 1 rating, properly installed. Follow with your favorite backer board or Ditra type membrane and you're good.

People that want all floors to be the same height, should install the same type of flooring thru out the home, just like much of the rest of the world does. It would look much better anyway.

Jaz
 
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Old 02-10-08, 08:06 PM
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Thanks Jaz...I do appreciate it. Like I said...I am very handy but have never done flooring before so it truly is a learning process and I apprecite your suggestions.

If it were you, would you pull up the old 1/2" (requiring taking out the bathtub again) and add 3/4" subfloor grade plywood with a exposure 1 rating all around OR just add 5/8" on top of the area that are is open that will be tiled (see photo)?



Thanks again Jaz!!!

Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
People that want all floors to be the same height, should install the same type of flooring thru out the home, just like much of the rest of the world does. It would look much better anyway.
I agree with you 100% expect for the fact that why would I pull up all my beautiful hardwood that is all over the house (30 years old) to make it match a guest bathroom that is 8' x 8' with only 8' x 5' 1/2 tiled?
 
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Old 02-10-08, 08:36 PM
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I would leave the old one as is, unless it's in bad shape. If you remove it and start over, you'd have to block the areas that were cut/added from underneath because no more t&g. Your choice.

As for the different type of flooring we like in North America, That's my point. Since many are accustomed to using different type of flooring materials, we can't expect level thresholds, they have to be different. But usually anything close to or under 1" is easily transitioned.

Jaz
 
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Old 02-10-08, 09:38 PM
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Thanks again Jaz. The current 1/2" sub is not in bad shape at all. A couple spots could use some new nails to reinforce, but that is not an issue.

I will go over the top with 5/8" plywood (subfloor grade with an exposure 1 rating) then Hardibacker then porcelain tile.

Last question...I don't know if the floor is flat all the way around (haven't really put a straight edge to it) but assuming it's not at any point where tile will be going, what would be your suggestion to get it all square?

And lastly, I see what you saying about the transition. If all is done correctly, it should be well under 1" from the tile to the hardwood so all is good. Will figure out options for that once we get the room done.

Thanks a ton!
 
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Old 02-10-08, 10:08 PM
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First find out how flat the floor is. Then we can figure what to do, if anything.

On the threshold, NO you will figure out what to do before you start....after will be kinda too late1

Jaz
 
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Old 02-10-08, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Build the floor right, then handle the transition as necessary.
That is what I was refering to.

I know I said "I will figure out options for that once we get the room done." I meant to say once I figure out how much of a difference there will be. Probably going to be around 3/8" - 1/2" above the hardwood since going with the 5/8" plywood on top, 1/4" HardiBacker and then the porcelain.

I will check out how flat the floor is this week and see if it is off in any areas then report back.

Thanks again Jaz...no need to keep beating your head against the wall
 
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