How can I tell transition height

Reply

  #1  
Old 02-12-08, 09:42 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
How can I tell transition height

I will have tile going to hardwood and I am trying to figure out the best way to do the transition. Here are the specs:

I am putting down 1/4" hardi, and my (12"x24") tiles are 3/8" thick. I will be using a 1/4" sq trowel to thinset down the hardi, and a 1/2" x 1/2" sq trowel to put down the tiles.



When I lay everything out, the tile sits about 3/16" below the hardwood.

Q1: About how level will these end up being? My guess is that the tile will stand proud of the floor, but I am not sure by how much.

Assuming that they are not level, I would guess I need to protect the edge of the tile, right?

Q2: What would be suggestions for the transition?

I had planned on using a metal "L" edge, but the ajoining wood has some edge flaws that are hightlighted by putting the straight metal edge next to it.

Someone had suggested a wood "T" transition, but I don't know where to find them, and I am not sure how big of a gap I need (and if they work across non-level joints).

If they are close to level, can I just caulk in the gap?

Thanks!
~john
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 02-12-08, 10:20 PM
Bud Cline's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Nebraska
Posts: 1,300
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Man!!! Just had this same argument in another thread here somewhere.

In my HUMBLE OPINION from what I see in the photo and having thirty years experience in this type of work I will venture out and sacrifice my credibility by saying after you have thinset under the tilebacker and thinset under that tile, you will be at the height you require. Especially if you add a metal edging for the tile where it meets the wood. In fact you may be slightly higher if not right on the money. At any rate the variance won't be severe.

After the metal edging is in place you can caulk the juncture (metal to wood) and hopefully hide the flaws in the wood. Don't know how serious they are.
 
  #3  
Old 02-12-08, 10:47 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I find that as I ask questions, the answers often point out that I didn't clearly understand what I was asking in the first place.

I had assumed that, if I was using the metal edge, I would be putting it flush against the wood. When I did that, some areas sat flush, but then there spots where there were gaps. If I have the metal flush to the tiles, but a gap (equal to a grout gap? Smaller?) between the metal and the wood, and I caulk that gap, then I bet it will look fine. Right?

Thanks!
 
  #4  
Old 02-13-08, 07:38 AM
Bud Cline's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Nebraska
Posts: 1,300
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Right.

I wouldn't gap the metal to the wood more than about 1/8". This will allow for the varying expansion rates of the two materials and still make a presentable caulk line. "Caulk" not grout.
 
  #5  
Old 02-13-08, 08:52 AM
H
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
Received 4 Votes on 4 Posts
I think you oughta be pretty close to where you want to be as well. You dont have much tile to set there. I'd experiment with a 1/4 x 3/8 x 1/4 notch trowel and 1/2" notch trowel for the tile. See which one gets you where you want to be, just make sure you have good coverage.
 
  #6  
Old 02-13-08, 03:24 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by HeresJohnny View Post
I think you oughta be pretty close to where you want to be as well. You dont have much tile to set there. I'd experiment with a 1/4 x 3/8 x 1/4 notch trowel and 1/2" notch trowel for the tile. See which one gets you where you want to be, just make sure you have good coverage.
Do you mean to say actually put a tile down using one trowel, and then, if the height is not correct, scraping it all up and trying with a different trowel?
 
  #7  
Old 02-14-08, 07:10 AM
H
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
Received 4 Votes on 4 Posts
Kinda yeah. Its important that you get good coverage. If you think initially that you will need the smaller notch to get you to the height you want then try the smaller one first. Set a tile, and then pull up the tile to see that you are getting good coverage. You can slide a margin trowel underneath the set tile to do this. You want the entire back of the tile to come in full contact with the thinset. If the floor is flat enough, you will probably be able to get away with the smaller notch. If you are not getting full coverage with the smaller notch then you will have to move up to the 1/2" and live with the height difference. It should be minimal anyway.
 
  #8  
Old 02-14-08, 09:22 AM
Bud Cline's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Nebraska
Posts: 1,300
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
jthoni,

To place a tile in thinset and then pull it up to varify coverage is standard proced ure (or should be).

With tiles that size I sure would check it out.
 
  #9  
Old 02-16-08, 08:54 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Update

So I put down the tile today.

I tested out with the 1/4 x 3/8 x 1/4 sq trowel, and I did not get good coverage. I went with the 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2, and it was much better. I am certain I had good coverage in that I had to pull up a row (only three tiles), and it was extreemly difficult, and I had really great coverage on the back of the tiles.

Amazingly (as you all had said), I was spot on with the height. For the most part, it looks completely level. It turns out there is a small slope in part of it as the tile heigt dips below the wood for a bit. But the tiles sat flat, and the uneven part will be hidden by a fridge.

Thanks all!
 
  #10  
Old 02-17-08, 08:04 AM
H
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
Received 4 Votes on 4 Posts
Hey thats great. Yeah sounds like you got good coverage with the 1/2" notch.
 
  #11  
Old 02-17-08, 11:18 AM
Bud Cline's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Nebraska
Posts: 1,300
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
That's good news. There was no doubt in my mind
 
  #12  
Old 02-17-08, 06:26 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Grout haze

OK. I knew that everything went to well. Tiling, grouting, everything worked perfect. It seems I am now stuck with grout haze.



I tried to work in small 3 sqf areas, and clean up as I went, but apparently I did not clean enough. Maybe it is the fact that the surface of the tile is a rough faux stone with lots of little bumps and pockets.

So, what do I do now? I have gone over it with a sponge 5 times. Then I went and got some Scotch Bite pads and tried that. It seems that it gets about 2% better each time I scrub it, but maybe that is psychological.

Q1) I have heard about "grout haze remover" products. Do these work?

Q2) I have also heard about some more toxic (acid?) products. Do I need to do this (note that I have a dog and small children)?

Q3) Whatever I do, does it need to be done ASAP, or do I need to wait for the grout joints to cure?

Thanks!
~john
 
  #13  
Old 02-17-08, 06:48 PM
HotxxxxxxxOKC's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 8,044
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I love that tile.....what is it? Porcelain?

You don't want to try and acidic cleaners yet, it may actually do more harm then good right now.

I use soapy clean water with a wire type brush and a clean cloth to try and remove the haze. It can take some elbow grease and time, but it should come off.

You could also try a light mixture of white vinager and water,say about 75% water, 25% vinager. Vinager is a acid, but at this mixture, it shouldn't really harm anything. I'll get scolded if I'm wrong, so hang in there and we can wait for more responses.
 
  #14  
Old 02-17-08, 09:14 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks HotinOKC! I used the 25% vinegar, and a small wire brush..., and a LOT of arm work, and it is coming up. I still have stuff near the grout joints and I am a bit worried about pulling grout out of the gap. So...

Should I wait to let the grout in the joint harden before attacking the edges, or will waiting allow the grout in the haze to cure, making it harder to remove?

I will add that I have very exhausted (in addition to this projecct I had some demo work, yard cleaning, a dump run, and a birthday party I took my kids to) and would love to wait until tomorrow night to finish this.

Thanks!
 
  #15  
Old 02-18-08, 06:52 AM
H
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
Received 4 Votes on 4 Posts
The grout haze removers do work pretty good and you should try one. Not a good idea to use a wire brush, as it can do damage to the tile and grout. Use a stiff nylon brush or scrubbie pad with the grout haze remover. The faster you attack that the better your chances for success will be.
 

Last edited by HeresJohnny; 02-18-08 at 02:44 PM. Reason: cant spell good
  #16  
Old 02-22-08, 01:15 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I moved up to 100% vinegar (neutralized it as I went along) and used the wire brush (this brush is not leaving any visible mark on the tiles, and the nylon brush does nothing), and got rid of 90% of it.

I went out and got Grout Haze Remover. The directions on it state that the grout needs to cure 10 days before using the product. It also states that you should saturate the area with water for 20 minutes, then saturate the area with the remover. Let it sit (can't remember how long), then clean up.

My current question is, as I am saturating the area, my grout joints will get saturated as well. I have not sealed them yet, but I am going to do that soon. Will the sealer protect the grout I do want so that only the grout on the surface of the tiles (i.e. the grout I don't want) gets affected? Or do I need to do something else?

Thanks!
~john
 
  #17  
Old 02-22-08, 01:20 PM
H
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
Received 4 Votes on 4 Posts
Its not gonna hurt the grout in the joints. The key is to clean everything up good with lots of water afterward. Clean it with water afterwards 2 or 3 times. You wanna get all the remover out of there after its done its job.
 
  #18  
Old 02-22-08, 01:57 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by HeresJohnny View Post
Its not gonna hurt the grout in the joints...
My assumption is that the remover is going to soften up the grout on the surface and pores of the tiles so that it can be cleaned up. Wouldn't it do the same to the top layer of the grout in the joint? Or is it that it would only affect a very small layer (i.e. all of what is on the tiles, but just a small "skin" from the gout joint which has plenty of depth to spare this amount)?

Also, would it be better to seal the grout joint before, or after doing this?

Thanks again!
 
  #19  
Old 02-22-08, 03:23 PM
Bud Cline's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Nebraska
Posts: 1,300
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
First of all nothing is going to "soften the grout", not to worry there. Have you waited ten days to use the grout haze remover. Seems not, but I'm too lazy to look.

Typically the sooner you get the job done the better but in this case I would trust the grout haze remover and follow the instructions. The tile will clean up, but I would be hesitant to use a metal brush, you probably can't see the damage it is doing but it will mark the tile. The reason for flooding with water first is so that the haze remover can't/won't penetrate too deep into the grout joints. I would trade the wire brush for a white 3M scrubbie pad.

Concentrate on a tile with the scrubbie then immediately pick up the juice with clean water using a sponge. Make a single swipe with one side of the sponge, turn it over and swipe one more time, then rinse the sponge. If you are going over and over the surface with a sponge then you are the culprit. One swipe per side of the sponge then rinse.

It all looks pretty good by the way, nice job .
 
  #20  
Old 02-24-08, 07:36 AM
H
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
Received 4 Votes on 4 Posts
John

How did you make out with the grout haze?
 
  #21  
Old 03-01-08, 09:02 AM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
We went on vacation for a week, so I am only now back. Planned to do it this weekend, but I think I fractured my shoulder (going to the doctor today). Probably will try anyway.

One question: the product says that it should not come into contact with metal. I have a metal trim. As the instructions say to flood the area with the product and let it sit, I am wondering what to do. My current plan is to make a little dam with plumbers putty to keep the water off of the metal.

Thoughts?
 
  #22  
Old 03-01-08, 01:47 PM
Bud Cline's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Nebraska
Posts: 1,300
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You have.....
"metal" WHERE?
 
  #23  
Old 03-01-08, 03:28 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I have metal "L" edging along the border (between the tile and wood).
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: