Bathroom Floor Help Please!

Reply

  #1  
Old 12-02-09, 02:10 PM
lbd301's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 63
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Bathroom Floor Help Please!

We plan to retile the bathoom floor. Have bought the tile, and stuff, but I want to make sure we're doing this correctly, because we've never taken on a project like this. I've scanned the posts over the past year or so, but if someone could please just bear with me and give me the step-by-step layout, I'd be eternally grateful!

Here is the bathroom as it looked a couple years ago before we moved in:




We ripped up the floor, which was tiny tiles laid in a cement bed a couple inches thick. The toilet and tile under it remains, and the the tile under the vanity remains.

Now there is just the planked floor that you can see when standing in the basement. There is a marble piece in the doorway and hardwood in the hallway.

I know from reading here that we need to screw down plywood, then thinset, then cement board, then thinset and tile. My husband went out and bought 1/4" plywood and 1/4" cement board today. I don't think that's going to be thick enough, right?

We're laying down 12"x12" tiles in a straight pattern, nothing fancy. The bathroom is about 5x11. We will be replacing the toilet and vanity/sink with an 18" wide linen closet and countertop screwed to the wall (no vanity under it, because a)we can't afford one and b) there's a heat vent on the wall to the right of the sink).

Oh, one other thing, there is currently a pink trim on the bottom of the wall, as seen in the pic. That will be removed when we get around to retiling the wall. In the meantime though, should that be removed to do to the floor, since it has like a lip on the bottom that is actually on the floor? (You can kind of see it in the pic).

Thanks for any help!! I just really want to make sure we don't screw this up!! (We do have the HD Tile 1,2,3 book)
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-02-09, 02:30 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,607
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
We've had discussions online about errors on procedures and methods in tiling books from HD. I think it was Tiling 1 2 3 Or maybe Tiling Made Easy 1 2 3? Bantam books I think?

I remember that floor from the '70's it was the "KOM" series.

You're right that the 1/4" ply is wrong, not even close, take it back. You'll need to determine how much the floor needs to be raised, then choose accordingly. The minimum I suggest is 1/2", but I think you'll need much more. Consider the elevation of the toilet flange. Make sure you do not buy CDX grade, (Too cheap). Look for B/C underlayment and should mention waterproof glues or Exposure 1. The 1/4" Hardie is OK.

Yes, the pink base needs to be removed, it's the first thing I remove after the doors and toilet.

Jaz
 
  #3  
Old 12-02-09, 02:36 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,967
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
Aaaah, 1970's....good years! When you get ready to do this, pull it all out. Vanity, toilet, everything but the tub, which I am assuming will stay if there is one. None shown in your pix. 1/4" plywood will be practically worthless in this situation. You need to measure up to your remaining floor in the hallway to see exactly how much plywood, thinset, durock, thinset and tile will be needed to bring it within tolerances you want. If the planks are 2" below your existing flooring, you will need to add up to 3/4" and 1/2" plywood, thinset, 1/4" durock or hardiebacker, thinset and tile. I think my measurements are close.
 
  #4  
Old 12-02-09, 04:20 PM
lbd301's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 63
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
OK guys, now I'm home and DH laid it down to see how high it comes. He laid two layers of the 1/4" cement board down inside the doorway with a tile laying on top, and it's pretty even. So it would be the same if it was the 1/4" plywood. 1/2" plywood would be too thick.

Here's a few pics I just took:

Looking down:


Camera sitting on cement board: (sorry it's blurry)


In front of the tub:
 
  #5  
Old 12-02-09, 05:49 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,505
Received 4 Votes on 4 Posts
Something isnt making sense here. You said the cement bed was a couple inches thick, but somehow you are making up that thickness with two 1/4" thick pieces of cement board totalling 1/2"?????? How high off the subfloor is the toilet flange? Can you show a picture of that? That picture next to the closet door showing the diagonal planks looks more like lath and scratchcoat, but hard to tell from here.

You cannot use any 1/4" plywood in a tile installation. Minimum is 3/8" and it must be exterior glue bc or better. Since you have the diagonal planks, you should at a minimum be adding 1/2" plywood. The diagonal planks are very unstable and move independently. That movement needs to be isolated from the tile. If the plywood is putting you up higher than you want to be, then use an isolation membrane over the plywood instead of cement board.
 

Last edited by HeresJohnny; 12-02-09 at 06:08 PM.
  #6  
Old 12-03-09, 02:11 PM
lbd301's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 63
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Johnny, It seemed a couple inches to me, but I guess I am off. The toilet is still installed, so I don't know about the flange. DH was planning on removing the toilet and starting with the flooring tomorrow after the kids and I are out of the house. We have another 1/2 bath, but not a tub/shower.

I see you're in NJ, are you near Morris County? I will tell DH about the plywood. So we should get 1/2" plywood. What is "exterior glue bc"?
 
  #7  
Old 12-03-09, 03:36 PM
HotxxxxxxxOKC's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 8,044
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Exterior glued plywood can hold up to moisture better then normal ply. Do not get exterior glued plywood mixed up with pressure treated. The BC means rating. One side of the plywood has a rating of B, which is decent and without lots of knots, etc, and the C is the other side, the side that lays facing the planks.

They also have AC rated, which is more expensive and usually overkill for tile substrate.
 
  #8  
Old 12-04-09, 07:25 PM
lbd301's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 63
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
OK, so I measured the pipe that comes out of the floor where the toilet was and it was 1.5" high off the floor. So I asked DH, "Are you sure the stuff you bought is 1/4"?" He's sure it is, so I looked at the cement board. The sticker says 3x5x.42???

I haven't seen the plywood, it's in the garage, but I told him to get exterior grade plywood and he said he did. Not sure what rating it is.

I'm not real good at math, but I know that .42 is less than a 1/2" but more than a 1/4". DH said he put 2 together and it measured 1". WTH?? Anyway, I measured it myself and it is 1/2". So I guess we're good to go.

Does it matter what way the plywood and cement board is put down, like where the seams are? Should the plywood lay one way and the cement board the other?

Thanks!
 
  #9  
Old 12-05-09, 07:29 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,967
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
Try to get your seams to overlay the subflooring in an offset manner. Start with the offset and I doubt you will have any of the seams to meet up. You probably couldn't even if you tried. Cement board has no grain, so it doesn't matter in which direction it is laid in relation to the subflooring, but generally across the joisting longways. Good luck with the project, and we're naming you the General Contractor for keeping all the information correct.
 
  #10  
Old 12-06-09, 12:48 PM
lbd301's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 63
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Checking in...DH is putting the plywood down now. How much clearance is needed for the pipe that the toilet sits on? Is it supposed to be flush with the tile? Also, the top of the pipe is a little bent out on one side...is that OK? THat's how it was when DH took the toilet off. Thanks!
 
  #11  
Old 12-06-09, 01:30 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,967
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
The toilet drain should be supported. Is it cast iron or pvc? How will the toilet be attached to the pipe? Is there a flange on it? If not, it will need one. The cut out for the pipe should be pretty close, as you have to fasten the flange to it. Even if it means splitting the plywood to fit under the flange, do it. The flange should be flush with the tile, but remember you have a layer of cbu going on top of the plywood, so account for that as well as your tile. If you miss a little, you can always use a flange extension without any problem. We'll cover that when you get to it.
 
  #12  
Old 12-06-09, 01:38 PM
lbd301's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 63
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The drain is cast iron. Um, we bought a "complete" toilet in a box, American Standard, I think. Haven't opened the box yet, but I think it's all supposed to be in there, wax ring and all. Would that mean the flange also?

OK, so it sounds like we're OK...I think! LOL! I'll keep you posted.
 
  #13  
Old 12-06-09, 03:35 PM
HotxxxxxxxOKC's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 8,044
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
No. flange does not come with your Champion 4 toilet.
 
  #14  
Old 12-06-09, 04:11 PM
lbd301's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 63
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Ok. Is there something in particular I should be looking for when I go buy a flange then? Will instructions in the box tell me? Sorry, I can't get to the box right now. It's in the closet of our guest room/current construction storage room, and I can't physically get to the closet right now.
 
  #15  
Old 12-06-09, 04:47 PM
HotxxxxxxxOKC's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 8,044
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Normally I do not link to some other site, but this video "might" help you out some. Without rereading your thread and no pics of the toilet flange, you may just get away with adding a thick wax ring instead of messing with a new flange. However, since you mentioned cast iron, then it's most likely corroded.....anyways, here's a short vid.

Replace Flange Under a Toilet: How to Repair a Toilet | eHow.com
 
  #16  
Old 04-05-10, 08:07 PM
lbd301's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 63
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
So, um, here I am again, 4 months later, and my bathroom isn't done yet. DH is off this week working on it again. As a reminder, see pics in the first post. The tile was in a bed of cement, circa 1956. We took it down the the subfloor, and now there is a layer of plywood on that.

DH laid out the tiles from the center of the door, straight back to the window/center of toilet. The problem is the plywood is almost even with the hardwood in the hallway. So when we put the cement board down, it's going to be higher than the hallway, by about the height of a tile or 2 I think.

So I guess my question is, what do I use in the doorway, instead of that marble piece? Does it make a difference that it's that much higher? Is that normal when people redo old bathrooms like this?

DH suggested we use the bullnose tile instead of the marble piece in the doorway. We're trying to figure out where to place the first tile inside the doorway. The goal is to get the toilet area done by the end of the week. We have company coming next week, just for the day, but we really need to have the toilet in. I told DH that we have to lay it out so the cut tile is behind the toilet (he was going to start behind the toilet).

I know this sounds ridiculous, that we're not just doing it all at once. I think the problem is that neither of us has ever done this and since I'm the one that watches all the home remodeling/decorating shows, DH thinks I should know this off the top of my head. I mean, I joke that I should be able to build a house by now, but really, I tend to over-analyze things, and get too confused to actually make a decision!

So, if you understood this, please answer!
 
  #17  
Old 04-06-10, 05:09 PM
lbd301's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 63
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Bump...someone...anyone?! Please help!
 
  #18  
Old 04-07-10, 04:43 PM
HotxxxxxxxOKC's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 8,044
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
So I guess my question is, what do I use in the doorway, instead of that marble piece? Does it make a difference that it's that much higher? Is that normal when people redo old bathrooms like this?
In my opinion, the marble looks bad. I think a good stained wood transition strip would be better. It is very common to have to different height floors after a remodel.

DH suggested we use the bullnose tile instead of the marble piece in the doorway.
Don't do this.


In regards to where to start:

Find the center of the room and start there. Dry fit the tile and determine of that starting point needs to shift. You want to avoid sliver cuts if possible. Keep the cuts even. The cuts under the toilet don't need to be pretty either.
 
  #19  
Old 04-07-10, 08:15 PM
lbd301's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 63
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hot, thanks. I did find some pics online of exactly what you're talking about with the wood transition, so I showed DH where to start the tile. I supposed HD has transitions like that?

We lined up the tile with the center of the doorway, instead of the actual center of the room, because once the vanity is in, the actual center won't be the center anymore, kwim?

So if you look at the first pics in this thread, the center row of tiles go straight from the doorway center to the toilet center. Will post pics tomorrow. DH tiled the area where the toilet is, out to the end of the tub.

Thanks!
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: