Tile ??????

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Old 05-30-11, 10:22 AM
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Tile ??????

Ok, not sure where to put this question, so I'll start here. I am replacing the tiles on my patio table. Easy right, just go buy the 12" x 12" tiles it requires and set em in.....nope, not for me! All of my new tiles are just a hair too big and they don't fit in the "frames" of the table!!!!! I need to cut them down by a 1/8" or less. What would be the easiest way to do this, knowing that I have NO tools for "tile work"! Please help me as I am trying to sell my house and the patio looks SOOOO much better when the table's set up. Oh, can't go back to my old tiles as the table blew over in a storm and over half the tiles broke....TY TY TY!!!!!
 
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Old 05-30-11, 10:58 AM
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Rent a tile saw. I'm pretty sure HD does that or a local rental shop may have one. Get the kind that works like a radial arm saw rather than a table saw because the latter are usually too small to handle 12" tiles.
 
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Old 05-30-11, 11:01 AM
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Oh, and cut only the edges that go to the outside of the table. The way, your grout lines will look normal away from the edge of the table.
 
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Old 05-30-11, 11:19 AM
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Boy, I was hoping I wouldn't have to do the "renting a saw" thing but I figured! Not sure what you meant by "cutting the outer edge"? I'm sure it's me but the table has 16 tiles total in a grid pattern, which means there's tiles on the inside that have tiles on each side. Anyways, I Thank you!!! Oh, is there somewhere, like HomeDepot, that I could take the tiles to be cut???? Is there any other way besides the renting of the saw? Actually, is this common....tiles that are not of the exact measurement???? I couldn't believe that they wouldn't fit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Old 05-30-11, 11:30 AM
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Yes, it is very common for tiles not to be exact. It is a nominal size similar to a 2x4.
With such a small amount to be removed you might be able to grind them down with an angle grinder fitted with a 4" diamond blade.
 
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Old 05-30-11, 11:39 AM
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I guess I should of known that they all wouldn't be the "exact" measurement but I'll be darned if I thought they all would be just a hair too big and not fit at all!!! I don't have an angle grinder, I have a Dremmel (LOL)!!! I guess my preference would be to take them somewhere that I could pay to have them cut. I would rent the tool(s) necessary but I'm not familiar with anything "tile" and certainly not the tools....TY and if anyone has any, keep the idea's a flowing!!!!!!
 
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Old 05-30-11, 12:19 PM
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What do you fella's think about my local hardware store cutting my tiles for me??? Just a thought....
 
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Old 05-30-11, 12:38 PM
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Figure the number of tile you have to cut, and which sides need to be cut (remember the corner ones may need two edges cut. Mark the edges to be cut with a marking pen and find a tile guy on a jobsite and offer to pay him to cut your tiles for you. May take 5 minutes, and would be worth a lunch or two to him.
 
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Old 05-30-11, 12:48 PM
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What I was going to suggest is similar. Lay out the tiles as they would go on the table, including spacing for grout. I'm guessing a 4x4 grid. Then as suggested above, mark which are the four outer edges - actually, you could get by with only two because it sounds as if there won't be enough of a centering issue to worry about. I like Chandler's idea about finding a job in progress, but it may be easiest to call around to some tile layers and/or remodelers to find out a) if they'll accommodate you, and b) where they have a job going.
 
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Old 05-30-11, 01:03 PM
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While a Dremel tool might work, it would take much too long. A local hardware store is a good option if they have a saw set up. if you have a good relationship with them otherwise it might be a hassle for them to cut that many tiles. A cheap angle grinder from your local Menard's store (I see your in WI) would likely run you about $40 and a blade $10. Grinders are very handy tools and I'm sure you could find many uses for it over the years. If you do go this way be sure to cut it outside and wear hearing and eye protection.

This might convince you to pick one up: How to Use an Angle Grinder | The Family Handyman.
 
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Old 05-30-11, 01:13 PM
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Great, you guy's have given me some nice option's! First off, there's no grout but the actual frame of the table is basically the grout. I measured and it seems that 11 5/8" x 11 5/8" would work on all of the tiles. I would think that "cutting" them might be easier and have a better finished edge than grinding them????? I'm definitely not opposed to adding an angle grinder to my very weak "set o tools"!!!! Just not sure that's the way to go......
 
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Old 05-30-11, 01:31 PM
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You can't be too careful, so I just wanted to be clear on the marking of the tiles.
The tiles are rough on the back so number them in their respective installation order with a permanent marker.
Yeah, the grinder is a good tool to have, but in novice hands it may look like a snake Find a tile guy.
 
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Old 05-30-11, 01:44 PM
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Nice easy to understand graphic but what about the tiles in the middle, they have to be cut twice as well, no???? Sorry if I'm not picking this up too quickly but this greenhorn wants to do this correctly......TY to y'all for all the help!!!!
 
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Old 05-30-11, 02:49 PM
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Boy...the more I look at that graphic, the more I get confused(LOL)!!! It might be the friggin' heat here in WI....not even close to being ready for this type of temps/humidity!!!!! Please let me know if what I stated in my last post, was correct or at least on the right path. Otherwise, I really need help, maybe professionally!!!! If someone could lay that out for me, if I'm not on the right track, that would be greatly appreciated...I would hate to take it to whoever I'm going to have cut them and be all "backwards" and not ready to cut.....
 
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Old 05-30-11, 05:44 PM
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No, the middle ones won't need trimming. You want the field to be butted with factory edges. Only the outer edge needs trimming. Lay out your tile on the counter the way you want them, centered, and you'll see what I mean. Snap a pix of your countertop with your phone and take it with you so they will understand what you want. Take good measurements in both directions, preferably at 3 points along each run.
 
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Old 05-30-11, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by walleyeshark View Post
It might be the friggin' heat here in WI....not even close to being ready for this type of temps/humidity!!!!! .
I agree 100% with this statement! I can't wait till fall!

I was under the impression that these tiles fit into a frame. No grout. I think Chandler has a good option for you.
 
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Old 05-30-11, 11:28 PM
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I think the point that Chandler missed and that's causing Walleyeshark some confusion is that the table top consists of a steel GRID into which each tile fits. There is steel around each tile, not just around the perimeter of the table top.



Consequently, ALL of the tiles will have to be cut on all 4 sides, not just the perimeter tiles.

Since we're cutting 12 inch square tiles down to 11 5/8 inches square, then we're cutting 3/16 inch off all 4 sides of each tile, and that means cutting off the factory edge entirely.

So, I'd recommend that Walleyeshark return the 12 inch square ceramic tiles he bought, and buy porcelain floor tiles (which don't have a separate bisquit and surface colour, but are the same colour all the way through the tile).



Then, after having all of his tiles cut, Walleyeshark can take those cut tiles down to any glass shop where they'll have a 8 to 10 foot tall belt sander which they use to grind off the sharp edges of cut plate glass. That way, the new tiles aren't likely to cut your finger or get chipped up along their edges.
 
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Old 05-31-11, 04:28 AM
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I guess we totally missed the word "frame S". I was thinking a perimeter "frame". Yes, porcelain tile will be the only way to go to get good color on the edges. Thanks Nestor.
Walleyeshark, if that is the case, yes, you need to cut down all the tiles. Pictures sometimes help us to help you.
 
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Old 05-31-11, 08:30 AM
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OK...there is a steel frame in which each tile fits...no grout. I like the idea of porcelain tiles but what about price? Also, will a glass company cut them for me as well as sand them down? Are porcelain tiles durable as this table is outside 24/7? I actually have to take the pkg of 12 tiles back because the bottom tile is broke! TY for all your help and it looks like you have me going in the right direction to get this table looking good!!!!
 
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Old 05-31-11, 09:08 AM
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Well, I looked up some porcelain tiles at Home Depot and there's some I like for a good price. But, again, are they durable and then there's the "cutting" issue's......
 
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Old 05-31-11, 11:38 PM
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I'd phone around to the places listed under "Tile" in your yellow pages phone book. I expect most of them will have a wet tile saw in the back, and would be willing to cut your tiles for you. When I've had ceramic tiles cut in the past, the places I dealt with typically charged 50 cents a cut. But, those were ceramic wall tiles, and they were a lot softer and smaller than your porcelain tiles. (Still, I don't know that the difference in tile hardness would make much difference to a diamond saw or it's operator. Daimond is vastly harder than both ceramic or porcelain tiles.)

No glass company will have a wet tile saw. You cut glass by scoring and snapping, so they'd have no need for a wet saw. However, most glass companies would be willing to sand down the cut edges of your tiles for you. Let them know that you only need the tops sanded, cuz they might end up sanding the bottom edges as well, and want to charge twice as much.


But, again, are they durable?
You're joking around with me, right? Porcelain floor tiles are the hardest and strongest ceramic tiles you can buy. They rate the hardness of ceramic floor tiles in "diamonds" with 5 diamonds being the hardest. So far as I know, all porcelain floor tiles will have a 5 diamond hardness rating. They're almost certainly as hard and strong (if not more so on both counts) than the tiles that came with your table. Since porcelain has virtually no porosity, porcelain floor tiles don't absorb water the way that softer floor tiles (like travertine, or whatever) do. Consequently, there's no concern that rain followed by freezing temperatures will cause damage to the tiles. And, any ice forming on or around the tiles will break before the tiles will. If I was making tables like yours, I'd put porcelain floor tiles in that steel grid. Either that, or aluminum, galvanized or stainless steel "diamond plate"...
 

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Old 06-01-11, 02:19 PM
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You're joking around with me, right? Porcelain floor tiles are the hardest and strongest ceramic tiles you can buy. They rate the hardness of ceramic floor tiles in "diamonds" with 5 diamonds being the hardest.
I have never heard of this "5 diamonds" system. Maybe they do things different in Canada.

You'll find that 12"x12" tile will vary in size by manufacturer/product line etc. Rarely are ceramic tiles that are sold as 12"x12" actually that size. Go to a tile store with the exact measurements you need. They should be able to fit you up with porcelain tiles in the size you require. It'll save you an awful lot of work.
 
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Old 06-01-11, 02:48 PM
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A porcelain tile is a ceramic tile like a dime is a coin - they will be durable enough for you
 
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Old 06-01-11, 04:16 PM
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Here's Johnny:

No, the same system is used in Canada as the USA. It's actually called the "PEI Rating" after the Porcelain Enamel Institute, who established the scale. The rating goes according to the amount and kind of foot traffic the tile is likely to receive.

I called it the "diamond" rating system only because whenever you see the hardness of ceramic tiles expressed as a number from 1 to 5, it'll usually be followed by a drawing in the shape of a diamond, or as 1 to 5 diamond shapes in a row.

Metro Flooring Hardness of Ceramic Tile

How is Porcelain Tile Rated for Hardness Article - BuildDirect Porcelain Tile Articles

Google "PEI Rating" and you'll find lots of web sites that talk about it.
 
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Old 06-02-11, 07:16 AM
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Ahh PEI, Ive been in this business for over 35 years now, and know what PEI is. Never heard it referred to as the 5 diamonds.

PEI pertains only to the hardness of the glaze of glazed tile. Unglazed tile like some unglazed porcelains do not have a pei rating.
 
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Old 06-09-11, 12:41 PM
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If you indeed end up cutting porcelain tile, I would suggest you check out your local Lowes tile department. I tiled my kitchen floor and 2 bathroom floors and Lowes did all my cutting. I just marked 10 or 12 tiles at a tile and brought them in to be cut. There was a sign stating that they charged $.25 per cut but they never charged me a penny.....and I didn't even buy the tile from Lowes! Check it out....
 
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