Need help with installing Travertine

Reply

  #1  
Old 09-03-11, 06:27 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Lightbulb Need help with installing Travertine

I would like to install Travertine to my concrete floor
1. What type of adhesive I need for the Travertine to glue it to the concrete?
2. What type of grout do I need, I would like to have 1/8 or 1/16 space between each Travertine.
3. Not sure what this is called. the tool to spread adhesive on the concrete, what is the size should I be using, can I use 1/4 x 1/4 or smaller. I do not wish to raise the floor that high, Travertine already 1/4" thick.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-03-11, 06:30 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi You,

1. What type of adhesive I need for the Travertine to glue it to the concrete?
The adhesive is called thin set mortar. It come only in powder form. Get what is know as "modified" or "fortified" thin set. Buy white, not gray.

2. What type of grout do I need, I would like to have 1/8 or 1/16 space between each Travertine.
1/8" or less, use un-sanded grout.

3. Not sure what this is called. the tool to spread adhesive on the concrete, what is the size should I be using, can I use 1/4 x 1/4 or smaller. I do not wish to raise the floor that high,
It's called a trowel. 1/4x1/4 should be fine, but you may need a trowel with bigger notches, (1/4x3/8x1/4"). You didn't say what size the tiles are. It matters. The 1/4x1/4 trowel will raise the floor 3/32" at most. That is the thinnest you'll want for proper bond. Bigger tiles may require larger notches.


Travertine already 1/4" thick.
I bet it's thicker than that. Should be at least 1cm thick, unless they're large tiles.

Sorry but when someone doesn't know what a trowel is, all kinds of flags should go off. So, take your time, research and ask Q's here. The one thing in your favor is that the substrate is concrete. Speaking of....... It must be very flat and I don't mean just in looks. Any cracks?

Jaz
 
  #3  
Old 09-04-11, 05:40 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,967
Upvotes: 0
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Glad you answered Jaz. I have never laid travertine on a floor. Afraid it will become too much like marble and track up with any and all dirt present. Also the 1/4" thickness threw up a flag.
 
  #4  
Old 09-20-11, 03:02 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Jazz and Chandler,

Thank you for the response. Sorry been busy at work and did not had a chance to come back to check for response.

Size:
I am planning to install 18"x18" Travertine.

Thinset:
Yes, there are cracks on my slab. I have seen other people's house, after install tile, the tile crack. So, I would like to make sure I have the correct thin set. What is your suggestion to shield the cracks?

There is a video from Google, the professional install, used a thin adhesive on the slab. He spread motar thin set on top of the adhesive. He also put a thin layer of adhesive on the back of the travertine before set it on the motar. He did not say why, my guess is that he is preventing moist to reach the travertine as well as prevent the crack of the travertine if the slab continue to crack. Any thought on this?

I don't remember seeing a motar call "modified" or "fortified". I will check again. Any way, I purchase a motar with polymer made by mapei brand "ultarflex 1". Any comment on that?

There are so many to choose from and this will make it a bit difficult decision.

Since the thin set is below, any reason why to select "white"? If it get dirty can we just wipe it out?


New question?
I would like to cover the travertine with sealant. Any suggestion for the type of sealant? I do not wish to have it too shiny.


Again, thank you for help.


Trowel:
I will look for a bigger notch but would like to stay at 1/4" hight. Would that be OK for 18x18 Travertine? I saw a video from google. The installer does not even use a trowel. He just spread the thin set to the desire high, and then use cement spoon to make a couple notches.
 
  #5  
Old 09-20-11, 05:37 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi You,

18" stone huh....... Nothing like jumping in the deep end. Just so you know,
there's people that have installed tiles for years that get nervous when setting large stone tiles.

Yes, there are cracks on my slab. I have seen other people's house, after install tile, the tile crack. So, I would like to make sure I have the correct thin set. What is your suggestion to shield the cracks?
There several ways to help eliminate failures due to cracks in the concrete. First of all remember that nothing can help if one side moves up or down. They make crack isolation thin set that can take as much as 1/8" horizontal movement. There are paint-on crack isolation membranes that can do the same thing, but I believe better. I think the best way is to use sheet membranes such as Ditra or Noble for that purpose.

There is a video from Google, the professional install, used a thin adhesive on the slab. He...............
I can't comment on something I've not seen. However, I have seen all kinds of junk info and methods on Google and You Tube etc. Remember even you who didn't know what a trowel was a short time ago could post a how-to video. Be careful, send us a link or ask Q's here about what you saw.

I don't remember seeing a motar call "modified" or "fortified". I will check again. Any way, I purchase a motar with polymer made by mapei brand "ultarflex 1". Any comment on that?
Ultraflex 1 is one that is "modified" or "fortified". I'm not too crazy about that one, (Ultraflex 2 & 3 are better), but depending on which crack isolation product you go with it may be OK. It's best to use white for light colored stone tiles.

I would like to cover the travertine with sealant.
Use a penetrating sealer, it will not change to appearance at all. Do not use a "stone enhancer", which makes the stone look kinda like it's wet. Read the labels.

I will look for a bigger notch but would like to stay at 1/4" hight. Would that be OK for 18x18 Travertine?
If the floor was as flat as your kitchen table, 1/4" might be OK. But I doubt it. If the floor is nearly perfect try the 1/4x3/8x1/4, but I would go with 1/4x1/2x1/4 or 1/2x1/2.

Jaz
 
  #6  
Old 09-21-11, 08:11 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Here is the link to the google for installing Travertine. How To Install Travertine 24x24 Latte - YouTube

I went to Lowe to look for something to seal the cracks. I was recommended to used "acrylic" cracks isolation. I am still not satisfy with the idea of using ultraFlex 1 without having any crack isolation thin set. My question to you is, 1, would it be sufficient to use UltraFlex 2 without crack isolation? If I still need crack isolation thin set, what do you recommand?
 
  #7  
Old 09-21-11, 01:29 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Here is another video from utube: Installing a stone floor using a float method. - YouTube

I found this more helpful than the first link I posted. Now I understand why there are white layer thin set and the gray layer. This is just a different method of installing the Travertine.

Still have question. If I use UltraFlex 2 do I still need membrane isolation? If so, can you give me an idea of what type (brand and type) of membrane isolation I need to use with UltraFlex 2?
 
  #8  
Old 09-21-11, 01:37 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You will need to prime the concrete first using an acrylic primer.
Use polymer modified (or it may say flexible on the bag) adhesive.
Grout also needs to be flexible.
Trowel size depends upon how flat the sub-floor is.
Trav needs to be sealed so as to prevent staining.
 
  #9  
Old 09-21-11, 06:36 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Are you seriously thinking of installing your travertine using the method seen in those videos? I don't recommend it as it takes a lot of skill. You don't even know what products to use, forget it. :NO NO NO:

The easiest way is to first make the floor flat using a self leveling cement/compound, then once you're satisfied install the travertine using medium bed thin set mortar. However, before you chose a mortar, you'll have to decide which way to to take care of the crack isolation part. It get confusing. More later....

Have you checked the floor for flatness? For large tiles it needs to be flat within 1/8" in 10 ft. and 1/16" in 12" of the required plane. So, pretty flat. What type of room is this and how large?

Jaz
 
  #10  
Old 09-22-11, 06:28 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,493
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
youhour

You are putting the cart before the horse here. The first thing you need to to is evaluate the slab. Determine if it has been sealed/painted, if it is within acceptable tolerance for flatness (see Jaz post above), and the nature of the cracks in the slab (any vertical shear, one side of the crack higher than the other). Describe the cracks and post pictures of them if you can. Are there any water issues that need to be dealt with? What is the overall size of the area to be tiled? Answering these questions will dictate what membranes, setting materials and methods you should use to proceed.

Are you seriously thinking of installing your travertine using the method seen in those videos? I don't recommend it as it takes a lot of skill. You don't even know what products to use, forget it.
Yep, I couldn't agree more.:NO NO NO:

Its not possible for us to give you the right guidance on your installation until you give us all the required details.
 
  #11  
Old 09-22-11, 09:37 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you for all the advice and feedback.

Yes, I have evaluated my subfloor for flatness. They are less than 1/8" different
These Travertine will be install in Formal dinning room and family room about 400 to 500 square feet.
I do not plan to install the method show in the video. I was trying to understand what is being used "the white stuff"... Learn that is the thin set and the middle part is the floating mortar.
There is no vertical crack on my floor. There are a couple horizontal cracks, less than 1/8" wide and run about 10 feet long (not sure if longer than that because of the wall).
While I do not know the name of many tools, I do familiar with the tile installation. I installed marble in a few bathrooms (my bathroom and my other family bathroom).
When installing marble, I used premix adhesive which provided more flexible which prevent the crack travel through the marble. It has been for 7+ years and there is no sign of crack on the marble.
I have not use mortar before. I have seen people who used mortar for tile, the tile cracked after a year or so. And these are done by some contractor who has so many years of tile installation experience. And I was recommended by the Travertine seller to use mortar instead of the premixed adhesive because the premixed adhesive does not bond very well for the Travertine. I like the premixed adhesive due to its flexibility.
So, using the morta is what concern me.
Many Travertine installing instructions I found on google and other sites, do not says anything about the membrane isolation. I just started to learn about membrane isolation during this discussion.

There is no problem with water or moist (already checked).
Also, the house I am planning to install this Travertine is about 18 years old.
 
  #12  
Old 09-22-11, 12:09 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,493
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
OK, so your floor is flat, no water/moisture issues (not sure how you tested for this), no sealers or paint on the floor, cracks are smaller than 1/8" and no vertical shear, right.

Sheet membranes offer the best protection against crack isolation. The one I'd recommend is Noble CIS. Heres a link to it, that you can look at that'll address many of your questions.

http://www.noblecompany.com/Portals/...ENG%200310.pdf

After you've looked at this, come back with as many questions as you have and we will try to answer them for you.

One additional comment, premixed thinset cannot and should not be used in your project.
 
  #13  
Old 09-22-11, 02:42 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi Johnny, Thank you for the feedback. I stated "no water problem" because this s a living room. No water leaking or flowing into the area. A simple test for moist is to cover a plastic on the sub floor shield the etch of the plastic and wait for 48 hours. If there is no moist form on the plastic then there is no moist problem. This is a simple/basic moist test I learned from the guy install hardwood floor.

"One additional comment, premixed thinset cannot and should not be used in your project" got this from a few folks. And your additional comment encourage me to stay away from it for this project.
 
  #14  
Old 09-22-11, 05:52 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Good advice from Johnny. Once again, there are at least 3 category of products, (dozens in not hundreds of brands), to help eliminate future cracking of the tile work. They are specific mortars, liquid applied membranes and sheet membranes such as Ditra and Noble CIS.

The cheapest way is the mortar route. Example: Custom's Flexbond claims to protect for horizontal movement up to 1/16". Their MegaLite claims 1/8".

Liquid membranes such as Redgard and Hydroban work well. Both claim 1/8" protection.

Then the sheet membranes, dozens of them.

You should see what brands are available to you, then visit their website and study. It's difficult to give you all the possible products and methods.

Jaz
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes