2 Questions: trowel size + back-buttering?

Reply

  #1  
Old 12-13-13, 01:43 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 36
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
2 Questions: trowel size + back-buttering?

I'm putting down 12 x 24 porcelain floor tile. Can I use a 1/2 by 1/2 trowel for putting down thinset, or is there a better size square groove for this?

Also, should all tiles be backbuttered? I've never done it in the past, but is this something I should start doing?
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-13-13, 08:12 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,607
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Greg,

It's best to keep all questions about this project in one thread. This way people will know what's been asked and answered. In a short time your two threads are liable to be separated and some of the info will be lost. When that happens your Q's get ignored.

1/2x1/2 or 1/4x1/2 x1/4 should work well, but the condition of the substrate may make a difference. These are good baseline trowels to start with.

I highly recommend you also backbutter. This tool by our friend Phil makes it very easy. Back Butter Buddy - YouTube

Jaz
 
  #3  
Old 12-13-13, 09:58 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 4,297
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sure hope what ever your planning on laying that on is 100% flat and nonmoving with tiles that big.
 
  #4  
Old 12-15-13, 08:41 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 36
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sorry about the two threads. Didn't realize that each new post brings that thread back up to the top.

Just to sum it up again, the original floor was 1/2" OSB sitting under 3/4" particleboard.

I had to keep the 1/2" OSB, but I put 5/8" OSB over top of the 1/2". The joists are 2x10 and span about 10 feet. I added some cross bracing between the joists using pieces of 2x6. I added 1/4" backer board on top of this and used even more screws than recommended. It feels VERY solid to me there's not a spot on the floor that feels like it has any give.

Also, I'm using the Veri-Bond(I think that's the name) thinset for putting the tile down.

Sound alright?
 
  #5  
Old 12-15-13, 09:16 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,967
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
I still question the particle board, but......... If it firm and flat it as good as it will get. Versabond, modified thinset, correct. Hopefully your cbu has a layer of thinset under it, too.
 
  #6  
Old 12-15-13, 09:47 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 36
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I still question the particle board, but......... If it firm and flat it as good as it will get. Versabond, modified thinset, correct. Hopefully your cbu has a layer of thinset under it, too.
The particle board is now gone... replaced with 5/8" OSB. I did not put a layer of thinset under the CBU. I knew you had to do that with ditra.. but not backer board. It's just screwed to the floor.
 
  #7  
Old 12-15-13, 08:52 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,607
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Greg,

The one screwed is you cuz you need to remove the CBU and set it into thin set mortar and then screw or nail it down. You didn't have any installation instructions handy?

Next time please check in here, even if you think you know how to proceed.

Jaz
 
  #8  
Old 12-16-13, 10:29 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 36
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
that sucks! Is this a major problem? I've never had a tile crack, but then again this is a 12 x 24 inch tile.
 
  #9  
Old 12-16-13, 01:03 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,607
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Well yea, just like a man, do it then read or ask directions.

That step is very important and it' shouldn't be that hard to correct.

The tiles will probably not crack, but i guarantee at least some grout hairline cracks within a few years. Plus you notice a hollow sound instead of a more solid sound when walking over the floor.

Jaz
 
  #10  
Old 12-16-13, 01:33 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 36
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I never knew this was such a big deal. A buddy helped me tile my floors years ago and we didn't thinset the backer board, didn't leave 1/8" gap between boards and didn't even tape the joints and nothing has cracked. I guess I should nt have assumed that it was the right way to do it. By the way, why leave an 1/8" gap and tape??? What will eventually happen if that's not done?

I pulled 12x12 tile out of my house that was at least 15 years old and it was sitting on nothing more than 1/4" plywood held down by staples and there was nothing wrong with it.

This sucks!! I alreay put the tile down. Now I'm debating pulling it back up and each the cost to buy new and re-doing it.
 
  #11  
Old 12-16-13, 06:08 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 36
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
So I'm sitting here stewing over this...

It's only a 5 x 5 area that I'm tiling. I'm pretty much ready to rip up everything and start from scratch. It'll suck, but I can't let someone pay me for work like this... I can't guarantee that the tile will still look good 10- 15 years down the road.

So here's the deal...

1) Rip up everything. Subfloor and all.
2) Put down 3/4" OSB???
3) Put down the backer board as you guys have already instructed.
4) Tile

or am I making too much out of this? I'm just picturing the tile cracking and looking horrible in a year.
 
  #12  
Old 12-17-13, 06:23 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,607
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
If everything else was done right and looks good, I think I would not start over if it was me. But since you're willing you may know something I don't, I can't see from here.

So, go ahead and start over as you describe. Be sure to use a "subfloor" rated OSB though. Regular square edge alone will not do. CBU installed correctly, thin set under and seams taped etc., or Ditra.

While the joists are exposed it'll be a good time to sister or plane them if they are not perfectly flat with each other.

Jaz
 
  #13  
Old 12-17-13, 07:51 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 36
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Well, I talked to the guy and he doesn't want me to redo this... even at my expense. I know it's missing the thinset, but I added even more scews than is necessary. There wasn't a spot on the backer board that had any give at all when I stepped on it... maybe that helps, or maybe not. Anyways, I said I'd come back and re-grout anytime it was needed. As for the tile, what are the odds that one will break because of this? That's what I'm more worried about right now. I know you can't compare jobs, but everything I've put down in the past 10-12 years has not come up or cracked and I didn't thinset... I will from now on of course!
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: