Installing tub wall

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Old 04-05-14, 07:48 AM
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Installing tub wall

I am thinking about using the method,on my tub wall, of putting up 1/4" drywall then covering that with 1/4" backer board. I will then tape the seams and water proof the backer board,and install tile. Can you give me some pros and cons on this method.
 
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Old 04-05-14, 08:09 AM
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Why do you want to put backer board over regular drywall?

Standard practice is to mount the backer board directly to the studs.
 
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Old 04-05-14, 11:31 PM
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Because that way you don't have to shim out the studs. The backer board can go down over the tub flange, because the drywall creates the spacer, the 1/4 backer board can pass over the tub flange to the surface of the tub. If you don't shim the studs there will be a gap in the backer board under the row of tile at the tub, that you will have to seal. I will water proof the backer board so no moisture can get to the drywall. This is a method I have heard has been used, I just wondered if anyone uses it.
 
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Old 04-06-14, 05:03 AM
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Never heard of the practice. When I installed my tub I did not shim anything. I Installed the tub, then put up the backer board to the flange lip of tub. Then I applied my tile over the flange and sealed it.

These pics shows how my old tub was installed and that's how I installed the new tub, only using backer board.





 
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Old 04-06-14, 05:10 AM
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If you are stuck on using 2 layers, I'd make them both cement board. If any moisture gets to the drywall it may destroy the entire tile job
 
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Old 04-06-14, 05:13 AM
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You use 1/2" on walls, and do as Norm said, let the cbu sit in the flange of the tub. Tile will extend down over that and will give the added protection of not allowing any wicking of water.
 
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Old 04-06-14, 06:19 AM
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1/4" for floors 1/2" for walls. 1/4" lattice is available in 1 1/5" strips in the trim dept at the box stores. You can score and snap with a utility knife, add a bead of liquid nails and instant furred out wall.
 
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Old 04-06-14, 12:35 PM
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This is my first tub tile job. I understood that without some way to shim out the backer board,so it laid flat over the flange, that the backer board and the row of tile at the tub flange would flare out at the bottom and create a problem. Another method was to notch the studs at the flange so the backer board would pass flat over the flange to the tub surface. If all you need do is just run the backer board over the flange, why is so much made about methods to over come a nonexistent problem? Norm, have you had any problem with tile movement or cracking at the last row of tiles? Also Norm how did you waterproof your backer board?
 
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Old 04-06-14, 12:47 PM
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Not to steal Norm's thunder, but you are thinking too much on this. Let the 1/2" cbu sit ON the flange, not over it. A whole lot less work, and your tile will hang off the cbu and cover the gap. I even eliminate the need to silicone the gap where the tile and the tub meet, since any water that is splashed there will have to travel over an inch to reach the cbu. Makes for a neat transition and no mold or mildew will grow, since there is nothing there like silicone for it to grow to. Tile is very strong, and you won't have a problem with it breaking unless you take a hammer to it.
You put a 6 mil layer of plastic on your studs and then apply the cbu. Unless you want to go to the added cost and labor of applying Redgard to the cbu, it won't really be necessary. Note the cardboard spacer on top of the tub lip? The tile rest on that, leaving a 1/8" gap all around.

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Old 04-06-14, 01:20 PM
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I'm still not sold on Larry's no caulk transition at the tub, and he uses a 6 mil vapor barrier. I use 15# felt paper shingled down and overlaps the flange. Then when you put your backerboard to the flange, there is an added layer of sheeting that would channel any water that got past the multiple layers of CBU and tile and still channel it toward the tub and not the wall cavity. It also eliminates the need for expensive brush on waterproofing materials.

Only going to make light hearted comments on the picture Larry uploaded.

-Nice to see someone else using spacers to line everything up (I'm a little retentive in that area)
-Personally would have centered the rough-in on the tile and worked out from there
-Can't imagine how many attempts it took to cut the small top an bottom slivers that outline the recessed box. I would have made the box based on the size of the tile and gone 1 1/2" taller. Looks like you gave up on the left hand border cut.
-Its also nice to see a white tub, so many of mine seem to be Avocado Green that we Reglaze white, so I never really see the finished product until the very end

......Its all constructive Larry......
 
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Old 04-06-14, 03:38 PM
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Thanks Z. The reason I leave the tile open at the bottom is to allow a place for the moisture that could reach the vapor barrier a place to run back into the tub, even as miniscule as it may be. I do the same thing with the 6 mil as you do with the felt, cutting it at the bottom of the flange. Putting silicone along the tub/tile joint will trap the water and can allow mold to grow behind the silicone.

As you well know, customers have the last say so. The plumbing was existing, so no changing that. She changed to adding a lower border as we finished the first run of tile. The cut for the valve was just about going to be encased in the tile above it, until she added the border. Yeah it was fun. Yes the left border cut was a sacrifice, but, again, that is where she wanted the box. Someday, I will do it the way I want it done, and it is easier. I would have put it on the side wall to begin with, out of harms way.

My house is 70's, and yes, one in harvest gold and one in avocado. They will stay that way, and I'll decorate accordingly. I just do not like glazing for some reason. It may be a good idea, but one I saw peeled when the plumber attached the drain, 7 days later..
 
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Old 04-06-14, 05:40 PM
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Customer is always right, which make this line of work fun.

Find a good Reglaze guy, an independent who does nothing else and has a good nature about him. Done right, I've never had a problem. My guy says that he does everything the factory does, he just can't bake it in a kiln.

Like your logic on the tub flange, but graduated from the school that says if you do everything correctly, you don't have to worry about problems with moisture trapped behind the flange. Just seeing a nicely caulked tub lip as a great finishing element that ties the walls and the tub together.

Of course, have seen my share of butchered caulk lines that make me cringe. Kudos to you for being able to cut tile along the tub line that looks good enough to not have to caulk. I bow to that talent.
 
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Old 04-06-14, 06:11 PM
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Note: Only on tubs I install, BTW. I KNOW they are level on all three sides. Some sunken tubs are off limits to the neat line at the bottom, as you well know.
 
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Old 04-07-14, 04:19 AM
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JGM57,

I did not add any vapor barrier as Chandler or Czizzi did. No harm done if you do, but a bit of overkill. I used backer board rated for wet areas. Yes, I siliconed the tile at the tub. I also used a jolly piece to transition the seam as the tile meets the tub.

I have had absolutely no cracking or water damage even on occasions when the water settles on the tub wall side. The original install by the house builders was also absolutely dry and solid when I demo'd it. As long as your framing is solid and your tub is properly set and secured, the proper thinset used and the proper grout is used, you should not have any problems.

This summer I plan on redoing my bath off the master bedroom, which shares a common wall with this bath (tub wall). I'll be able to inspect and see any potential problems, but I doubt I will.

As Chandler said you may be over thinking this.
 
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Old 04-07-14, 04:58 AM
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level on all three sides
What's a level tub? I think they are outlawed by decree in this area.

One of the biggest culprits allowing water to get behind the tile flange is using grout instead of caulk in the corners. Looks great day 1, but as soon as the walls begin to breathe it cracks out. I sometimes use grout in the corners like a backer rod to fill the cavity, but finish it off with a nice bead of caulk shortly after I seal the grout in the rest of the shower. Yes, I'm one of the few that still includes grout sealing in the bid.

I also used a jolly piece to transition the seam as the tile meets the tub.
Norm, wasn't apparent in the pictures you submitted? These are the same a Schluter strips I believe. Why is you do this? To get a straight edge? What profile did you use?
 
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Old 04-07-14, 05:40 AM
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I also used a jolly piece to transition the seam as the tile meets the tub.

Norm, wasn't apparent in the pictures you submitted? These are the same a Schluter strips I believe. Why is you do this? To get a straight edge? What profile did you use?



Strictly looks! Since the tile we choose did not come with a matching bullnose and we did not want the metal edge along the wall these 1/4 round jollies gave a very elegant finish. I decided to add them to the tub edge also. Although they are not a Schluter strip jolly, they were sold to us as a "jolly" tile.



 
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