How to install tile?

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  #41  
Old 12-13-14, 12:30 PM
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I have had packaged valves installed upside down from the factory with the same results. Not double checking and assuming it was off. Never had the opportunity to put the wife in the shower like Andrew did.
 
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  #42  
Old 12-13-14, 01:45 PM
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Haha. She wasn't in the shower. She was just in the bathroom. I didn't quite pick up her screaming when I was in the basement. Kind of hard with two little ones in the house.
 
  #43  
Old 12-13-14, 03:01 PM
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Ugh! I'm having a real hard time driving the screws for the backerboard. I can't get them to sink flush before they strip out. Any tips besides using two screws per hole?
 
  #44  
Old 12-14-14, 06:19 AM
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Do I need to mesh the sorners as well?
 
  #45  
Old 12-14-14, 06:47 AM
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Are you using Hardi screws with #2 square drive? Never had one strip out before. Impact driver helps 1000%. Yep, mesh in the sorners, too.
 
  #46  
Old 12-14-14, 07:08 AM
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Hardi screws have frustrated me in the past as well, it takes firm pressure and a good 90 degree angle. I've also noticed that these screws are not great at pulling the material tight to the studs or subfloor. So I have taken to installing first with 1 1/2" galvanized roofing nails to drive the material tight, and then following up with screws for extra holding power. At that point you are not totally relying on the screws to set the materials, only hold it in its driven state. You therefore apply less pressure when installing. I wish they would make a collated version of cbu screw setting, I've spoiled myself with the collated floor screw gun I own.

"sorners" - sounds like we are learning a new language here
 
  #47  
Old 12-14-14, 07:11 AM
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I'll confess, too. I rarely use the Hardi screws alone. I use my roofing nailer with 1 1/2" gal nails. I mentioned the screws since he was already using screws. It's like a sheetrock crew. They set their sheetrock walls with nails and blow in screws with it set.
 
  #48  
Old 12-14-14, 08:13 AM
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I don't think the screws are hardo bran, but they are for hardiboard. I think the epoxy coating is letting the driver cam out more easily too. Once it does that, it tears the recess apart. If I knew this was a problem, I would have gotten some bit-biter on hand. I've never used it, but this would be a perfect test ground.

Bit-Biter
 
  #49  
Old 12-14-14, 08:26 AM
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Well it seems I used to wrong stuff. I thought I could use 1/4" on the walls, but I can't. Looks like I have to tear it all down.
 
  #50  
Old 12-14-14, 10:48 AM
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Blarg. It seems there has been some confusion. 1/4" hardiboard can be used on the walls. Now I just have to put it back up.
 
  #51  
Old 12-14-14, 12:01 PM
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No, 1/2" Hardibacker on walls, 1/4" on floors. I like 1 1/2" screws, too.
 
  #52  
Old 12-14-14, 01:42 PM
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Hardie says 1/4" is ok on the walls.
 
  #53  
Old 12-14-14, 01:48 PM
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1/4" hardi on walls such as a backsplash in a kitchen is fine. However, in a shower where the walls may be used as a brace, or back up against one for leverage as you wash your tootsies, will have some flex in it. Flex and tile and grout do not play well together.
 
  #54  
Old 12-14-14, 02:06 PM
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Hardi specifically says its ok on a shower wall. I guess I will be finding out.
 
  #55  
Old 12-14-14, 05:53 PM
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HardieBacker500 and HardieBacker 1/4"

The following passage has been lifted from the James Hardie Website regarding Hardibacker cement boards: Emphasis added

-Are easy to install
-Are available in 3'x5' and 4'x8' sheets
-HardieBacker 1/4" (0.25") is mainly used for floors and countertops
-Has the EZ Grid fastener pattern for simple installation
-HardieBacker500 (0.42") is used for walls and floors
-.42 size matches up with tapered edge of a drywall sheet

Critical stage here Droo....Your call on proceeding. With all the effort put in so far, would hate for you to have a fail on a judgement call. Myself, I would stop and reconsider and make the adjustment.
 
  #56  
Old 12-15-14, 01:46 PM
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This is also lifted from their website:

"Can HardieBacker 1/4'' board be used in a shower wall application? Is a vapor barrier required?

Yes, HardieBacker 1/4'' cement board may be used in a shower. However, we recommend HardieBacker 500 if you need to make a smooth transition to drywall. The board must be mechanically fastened every 8'' on center to the wood or metal studs spaced a maximum of 16'' on center. A vapor barrier is needed if required by local building codes."

James Hardie - HardieBacker cement board underlayment
 
  #57  
Old 12-15-14, 04:10 PM
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Droo, you are grasping at straws. I'll lift a quote from your quote - However, we recommend HardieBacker 500 . If in a legal battle, would you rather be on the side, arguing about a line item mention from a tech in the FAQ section or would you prefer to stand your ground backed by the main brochure recommendations.

There is one distinct difference between you and I...I have to stand by a warranty on the installation if something happens down the road. I, therefore, will default to manufacturers recommendations and go with 1/2" product. I do not desire the call back to repair or the negative press it will create that will strike a demerit against my reputation.

As the homeowner, you are free to do as you wish, without repercussions. My decision is easy, yours requires some additional thought.
 
  #58  
Old 12-15-14, 04:40 PM
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Your quotation is incomplete. "However, we recommend HardieBacker 500 if you need to make a smooth transition to drywall."

I'm not grasping at straws. Hardi allows 1/4" Hardibacker to be used for shower walls. They only sold 1/4" material for years before they offered the 1/2". The 1/4" is also stronger than the 1/2" in both tension and compression.

There is one distinct difference between you and I...I have to stand by a warranty on the installation if something happens down the road. I, therefore, will default to manufacturers recommendations and go with 1/2" product. I do not desire the call back to repair or the negative press it will create that will strike a demerit against my reputation.
I never said your use of 1/2" was wrong or that you should use 1/4".
 
  #59  
Old 12-15-14, 04:59 PM
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You can also find them specifying 1/4" or 1/2" for walls in their video tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFZNltmI0Ts
 
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Old 12-15-14, 05:29 PM
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Andrew, from your link:

HardieBacker500 and HardieBacker 1/4"
Are easy to install
Are available in 3'x5' and 4'x8' sheets
HardieBacker 1/4" (0.25") is mainly used for floors and countertops
Has the EZ Grid fastener pattern for simple installation
HardieBacker500 (0.42") is used for walls and floors
.42 size matches up with tapered edge of a drywall sheet


I'm not getting into the spitting match. Z and I are offering professional opinions based on experience. Your personal choice trumps us. We just want you to have a good experience with it.
 
  #61  
Old 12-30-14, 08:45 AM
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I dry laid the tile on the shower floor. Thoughts? It certainly isn't a perfect layout, but it is my first time tiling.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/drooplug/15960796098/
 
  #62  
Old 12-30-14, 09:26 AM
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I can not tell how close your dry layout comes to the walls. Generally you want to leave 1/4" to the wall which will be covered with the wall tile. Only a hair out of square to the drain, but as good if not better than many I have seen.

Make a series of reference tick marks on the walls to make sure that the tiles go back in where you want them to after you add the thinset. Just a fraction off will screw with your layout. Just use a pencil or sharpie to mark the exact location of the grout lines in major positions. Wedge spacers will help you keep a consistent grout line throughout.
 
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Old 12-30-14, 09:37 AM
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Wow. Didn't think I needed a 1/4". I did go back and start trimming the tile to get it away from the wall. I'll have to take more off and make some reference marks.

The area around the drain isn't laying perfectly because it dips down quite a bit and needs to be filled with thinset. Plus the drain is still loose.
 
  #64  
Old 12-31-14, 04:59 AM
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Got them all stuck down. I have two tiles with lipage. I'm a bit annoyed about it because I did go over it with my hand before things set and didn't feel it. The tile is honed, so I will see if I can tool the tile down somehow. I'll use some left over as test pieces.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/drooplug/16129754196/
 
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Old 12-31-14, 05:10 AM
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Freshly set, you can get them up relatively easily and reset to the correct depth. Use a utility knife to cut the mesh from between the grout line and then work the tile out. Chances are that you will nick or scratch the tile, so only do if you have some extras to replace the piece with. Otherwise, a little lipage will be eased when you add the grout. the sharp edges of the tile stick out at this stage, but you blend them with grout. Most likely, you will be the only one who notices.
 
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Old 12-31-14, 09:42 AM
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"However, we recommend HardieBacker 500 if you need to make a smooth transition to drywall."
One reason I never liked using Hardie. It's .42", who on earth wants to match up to the bevelled edge of wallboard? I've never seen drywall joints transitioned at the bevelled edged height so there is a ramp. Regular drywall is ", add a coat of primer and since we're remodeling an older home, you can safely say there's multiple coats of paint. Add the glue behind the drywall, and now the wallboard is more like ⅝" or thicker.

Originally Posted by drooplug
The 1/4" is also stronger than the 1/2" in both tension and compression.
That's true but it's immaterial when used on a wall. We're concerned about flexing between the studs not tension or compression.

Jaz
 
  #67  
Old 12-31-14, 10:01 AM
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czizi, I am beyond freshly set at this point. The one tile is pretty bad. I think the other would blend ok. Do you think it would be easy enough to bust out and replace? To refresh your memory, this is my tile: Carrara (Carrera) Bianco Honed Big Basketweave Bardiglio Gray Dot Mosaic
 
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Old 12-31-14, 03:30 PM
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Sorry for the delay, please refresh what your shower floor consists of under the tile. Need to make sure we don't bread the waterproof seal. It looks like a schluter system on the walls, but not sure how you constructed your pan.
 
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Old 12-31-14, 04:02 PM
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Used the schuluter shower kit. Kerdi underneath.
 
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Old 01-01-15, 03:34 AM
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At this time, the concern is any damage to the kerdi membrane. By freshly set, I meant withing a day of putting the tile in. The unmodified thinset used in conjunction with kerdi takes longer to set up than a modified thinset. Mapei's Uncoupling Membrane Mortar for instance, says it takes 24-48hrs to set up. Regular unmodified simply say 24hrs. So there was time to reset, although that time may have past. Again, the concerns would be damage to the membrane at this stage. If this was a traditional mortar bed shower, you would have just gone to town with a hammer and chisel to break the offending tile out. WHICH YOU STILL CAN TRY. Given the small size of the individual tile, it may simply pop up when you hit it. All depends on how good you were at getting coverage. Sometimes the mesh on the back works in your favor to prevent a great bond yet one adequate for installation. Time will tell what type of bond you achieved.
 
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Old 01-01-15, 05:51 AM
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Hmm. I think I will let it be at this point. I'll see if I can shave it down a bit bit, otherwise I will be living with it.
 
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Old 01-03-15, 07:18 AM
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Opinion on diamond blades? I have one of those small tile cutting table saws. I picked up a new blade at HD, doesn't seem to be that great. I saw diamond blades in the tool section that had different types of rims. Would those be any good for cutting tile? Or should I stick to blades labeled specifically for tile. I picked up a King Diamond blade. The Rigid one was more expensive but I wasn't sure it was worth the price.
 
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Old 01-03-15, 07:29 AM
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Use a tile blade with a smooth rim and diamond edge. I use Ridgid, but have also gotten lesser expensive blades which work fine. Make sure the blade is perfectly flat. Lay it on your countertop and make sure there are no boogers. A slight wobble will destroy tile.
 
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Old 01-03-15, 08:37 AM
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Also make sure it is centered on the arbor. Anything slightly out of perfectly round will cause the blade to "bite" at the tile and chip more than cut. Take a look at the dust created, when wet, it should be like a fine mud. If it is like a course sand at the beach, it is not cutting correctly. You also need some practice on those smaller saws to get a good straight cut. Use a reference line drawn on your tile, get down at eye level when pushing, expect to get a little wet and slowly push. Speed is your enemy, and if the saw blade pitch (sound) during cutting changes at all, it is because you are not pushing straight through. But at the very least, remove and re-install the blade. Test on scrap tiles until you got it down. Also keep in mind that 90% of your cuts will be hidden under molding or casing. Just spend the extra time on the visible ones.
 
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Old 01-03-15, 10:57 AM
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I'll try the Rigid. I've already cut a ton of tiles with little issue.

It's impossible to be off center on the arbor. The saw has a rip fence on it that I use most of the time. That keeps my cuts straight. And 90% of my cuts are seen. The dust is as fine as the clay it was made with.

Is it impossible to have zero chips on the cut? I'm getting very tiny ones that do not go through the color. This would be on my ceramic tile.
 
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Old 01-03-15, 12:02 PM
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The chip outs are caused mostly by the back side of the blade coming around and blowing the tile up from underneath as you complete your pass. The correction to minimize is that the blade goes perfectly straight through the tile. I have a bridge saw that I calibrate to perfectly square blade to the fence and also use a speed square to hold the tile a perfect 90 degrees to the fence. A bridge saw pulls the blade through the tile as opposed to pushing the tile through the blade.

You will also be surprised how a little off center on the arbor effects your cuts. Push something up to the leading edge blade (as if you are going to cut something) and then manually turn the blade see if there is any wobble.
 
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Old 01-03-15, 12:44 PM
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I set the fence so it is wider in the back. My tiles are 3x6 and are cut before they get to the back side of the blade.
 
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Old 01-03-15, 01:39 PM
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I set the fence so it is wider in the back
By your own admission, the blade is not parallel to the cutting surface. Try adjusting, cutting tile is not the same as ripping wood on a table saw. Setting the blade wide on the exit is not necessary. Instead, it should be set perfectly parallel so the blade slides through the complete cut. You are pushing it through at an angle so it drags after the initial cut.
 
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Old 01-03-15, 02:16 PM
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The waste side of the tile drags, but the good side does not touch again. I don't see how that would chip the tile on the good side. It's a difficult fence to set. Setting it larger in the back ensured it would never cut on the backside of the blade.
 
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Old 01-03-15, 04:00 PM
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I believe that the idea is that the front cuts and the side polishes (there is diamond dust on the sides). By offsetting the fence, you deny the polish. Set it up for a test in the morning, won't hurt to give it a try. I have used multiple blades, my current is a Rigid, but is also the first one I have bought, only because all the others were out of stock.
 
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