French/Versailles Pattern Tile Layout Problems!!

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Old 12-29-14, 06:09 AM
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Angry French/Versailles Pattern Tile Layout Problems!!

I just purchased 400+sqft of Versailles/French pattern travertine tile. They are all cut exactly the same: 2 - 8" x 8" tiles, 1 - 8" x16" tile, 2 - 16"x16" tiles, 1 - 16"x24" tile. The issue I am having is if I use, lets say 1/8 grout line, by the time I get to the 8x8"tile, the grout joints will no longer line up. Are there any tile gurus out there that know how to compensate for the grout lines? Will I just need to cut some tile to have them line up properly?
 
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Old 12-29-14, 07:00 AM
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What grout spacing does the manufacturer recommend? What grout line is required to make the pattern work?

Is this your pattern?
 
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Old 12-29-14, 11:40 AM
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Hi Marine,

The tiles you have are not modular size, and so you're gonna have a problem doing the Versailles pattern and maintain equal width grout. You have to bump the 8x8 together and spread the others a bit as you go. They all should have been made ⅛" smaller to work.

Next time buy tiles that are modular.

Jaz
 
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Old 12-29-14, 02:15 PM
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Yes, that is the pattern. I ordered it off of build direct and they didn't recommend any grout joint size(I should have looked into it first, I just assumed it was standard.) I was just wondering if anyone has run into this same issue and if so, what is the best way to lay the pattern with grout lines. I have read some threads where it is recommend to lay the tile w/no grout lines. I don't really want to do that because I like the look of grout lines.
 
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Old 12-29-14, 02:18 PM
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I have never really tiled before except for subway tile in a shower(which was pretty straight forward.) What do you mean by, "bump the 8x8 together"? The way the layout is, I'm thinking that I could just cut the 8x8s and then the others should line up, but I'm not sure.
 
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Old 12-29-14, 02:53 PM
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You're gonna have to do some cutting.

Is this a suspended wood subfloor system or is the floor a slab?

Sounds like you may not realize that if it's a wood subfloor it has to be much stiffer than if you were using ceramic/porcelain tiles. It's very important.

Jaz
 
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Old 12-29-14, 03:03 PM
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If you've got the tile in hand I would mark out an area for one pattern and place the tiles. Either the tile will do it with grout lines or not and possibly grout lines in some areas and tiles touching in others. You'll either have to figure out how to position the tiles to your liking or cut some tiles to get the grout lines you want.
 
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Old 12-29-14, 04:17 PM
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It is a 3/4" tongue and groove Advantech subfloor on 2x8 16oc. Each joist has been sistered to level the floor so that has stiffened it up significantly. I did read that I should have two layers of subfloor a minimum of 3/4" total. I have a very old home and I am limited on how thick I can go, so I was only able to put 1 layer of 3/4". The tile is 1/2" travertine. At this point, it looks like I may have to cut some and/or play w/the joint spacing. I just don't understand why they would manufacture tiles like that and expect a butt joint. I've been trying to decide if I should just butt joint them. Any suggestions on butt jointing French pattern? Can you even grout butt jointed tile?
 
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Old 12-29-14, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MarineBoy
I did read that I should have two layers of subfloor a minimum of 3/4" total.
No, I don't think you read that. You need the missing 2nd layer, I recommend it be min. " underlayment grade ply rated exposure 1. Followed by your favorite " concrete backer or a membrane such as Ditra.

Your sistered joists are probably stiff enough for travertine, but we don't know yet. Give us the unsupported span. I won't ask their species and grade cuz you probably won't know. Also, since they're old, what is the actual measurement. New 2x8 are 1.5 x 7.25, that why I'm askin.

Jaz
 
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Old 12-29-14, 05:30 PM
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What is the link to the exact tile you bought? I looked on Builder Direct and it appears they all show grout lines in the pictures. Are you sure you are laying the pattern correctly?
 
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Old 12-29-14, 07:02 PM
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drooplug,

8" + 8" plus one ⅛" grout does not equal 16". Non modular tiles are made to be butted which is against all the rules especially over a wooden subfloor system. It also will not work outside. It's even a bad idea over a slab in a small space.

Jaz
 
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Old 12-30-14, 03:55 AM
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I will be putting a ditra mat down over the subfloor, but if I put another layer of subfloor down I will be over 1/2" higher than the floor it is meeting up with. I have also read that butt jointing isn't a great idea, so I might stay away from that. The link to the tile I bought is:

Honed and Filled Light Beige Premium Travertine Tile

I also agree that 8"+8"+ 1/8" doesn't equal 16" that is why I brought up the butt joint question. So I guess I have three(maybe four choices): 1. cut my tiles so they line up 2. cut tiles and modify my joint sizes as I go so they line up 3. butt joint(which doesn't seem to be recommended.) 4. throw away the tile and lay rug

I will give build direct a call today to see if they recommend a joint or no joint. When I take a measurement they "seem" all the exact same size, but I will double check that too.
 
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Old 12-30-14, 06:14 AM
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What's the down side to laying without a grout line? I thought I've seen this done with marble before. Maybe the grout line was real small.
 
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Old 12-30-14, 06:50 AM
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I'm actually not sure what the down side is. I was hoping someone could tell me. If it is manufactured without grout lines, it must be ok, right? You see floors done that way.
 
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Old 12-30-14, 08:48 AM
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I think it makes it more difficult to lay, because you need the tiles to be perfectly flat. I can't think of anything else at the moment.
 
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Old 12-30-14, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MarineBoy
I will be putting a ditra mat down over the subfloor, but if I put another layer of subfloor down I will be over 1/2" higher than the floor it is meeting up with.
So, what's the problem, you'd rather have broken tiles? " variation is nothing, make a bevelled threshold out of travertine/marble or wood. ALL natural stone tile floors require a double layer subfloor system and joists that meet L720 max deflection.

Butting tiles together is a terrible idea. You can use what you've got but some joints will be very narrow. Fabricators make tiles that are actual size and also modular.

Butting tiles may cause: chipped edges, buckling (tenting), sheering of tiles from underlayment, is much harder to install with little or no lippage and install in general.

Jaz
 
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Old 12-30-14, 01:01 PM
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Natural stone products require a floor to be twice as stiff as required for ceramic/porcelain tiles. This means thick subfloors.
 
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