Replacing existing ceramic tiles in upstair bathroom

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  #1  
Old 07-26-15, 11:30 AM
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Replacing existing ceramic tiles in upstair bathroom

I don't like current ceramic tiles in the bathroom, so want to replace it. Also, at some areas, when I step on for little while then move away, I hear a pop sound which I like to fix.

I removed a small piece of tile from the edge to see what it looks like underneath (photo below). Seems there's cement board underneath and then fiber board (pressed wood board) underneath the cement board. But I didn't see any tarp to waterproof the floor. Where does the tarp laid, below the fiber board or between the fiber and the cement board?

I'm guessing the pop sound is due to a loose nail/screw either on the cement board or the fiber board. So I may have to remove the cement board as well. Should the cement board be reused or replaced?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 07-26-15, 11:39 AM
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By tarp I assume you mean a waterproofing membrane. Membranes are typically only used in showers so you would not find it under most bathroom floors.

You might be able to reuse the cement board under your floor but the devil is in the details. Do you have any broken or cracked tiles or cracked grout? If so that could indicate movement in the floor which means you might have to take off the cement board or even go further down. I would start by removing the tile and see what you have. If the cement board is solid and you don't have any soft spots you might be able to leave it.
 
  #3  
Old 07-26-15, 11:57 AM
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Do you mean OSB, or Partical board?
What tarp, there's never a tarp used on flooring?
Proper thickness subfloor the tile board laid in a bed of thinset is all that was needed,
How thick is the subfloor? Need to also know that the width and free spans are on the joist.
Yes it makes a big difference on how a tile floor holds up.
 
  #4  
Old 07-26-15, 01:26 PM
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Can't tell the thickness of the subfloor (OSB), or the joist span. If I don't need to waterproof it, then I'm not gonna worry about it.

I started removing the tiles in other area, and noticed the cements on them. I tried to scrape them, but wasn't an easy task. I may just just replace them.

There are couple of areas near the entrance, where the grouts are cracked. I'll have more info, once I removed the cement board.

Thanks.
 
  #5  
Old 07-26-15, 06:59 PM
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From what I see in that pic I suspect the tiles are not stuck very well. You say the floor makes a scrunching sound. That may indicate the tiles are loose and you're hearing the tiles scrape against the grout. It could also mean the concrete board was not installed into fresh thinset. You probably have lots of hairline cracks in the grout, but can't see them. Try taping the tiles with the handle of a screwdriver and listen for hollow sounds.

Jaz
 
  #6  
Old 07-27-15, 05:44 AM
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It sounds like you were intending to reuse the old tiles. That makes me think you are removing them because of a problem. What made you decide to re-do the tile?
 
  #7  
Old 07-31-15, 12:59 PM
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I am not reusing the old tiles and the backerboard. I'm replacing the old tiles, because I just don't like the color.

The deep pop sound was coming from near the sink area. I finished removing the tiles and hardibacker board (photo attached). It's one of the plank of subfloor by the sink. I stand on it for little while, then move away, and it will makes deep pop sound. I'm gonna put couple of screws to tighten it up. I'm guessing that will take care of that noise.

Yesterday, at Homedepot, I've picked up 1/4" hardibacker boards, hardibacker screws, and as their rep recommended VersaBond Thin-Set Mortar. He said I don't need the flexbond mortar (twice the cost) for the size of the floor.

What I'm worried about is, wouldn't the subfloor suck in the moisture from the mortar and possibly cause swelling?

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  #8  
Old 07-31-15, 05:51 PM
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Did you ever tell us what the subfloor is made of? You called it pressed wood in post #1, but that doesn't tell us whether it's OSB or particle board. Later you indicated it's OSB, are you still going with that? I'm hoping it's OSB and it's installed correctly.

You mentioned some grout cracks and possibly loose tiles near the entrance, this could be several things like; weak joists, thin or loose subfloor, improperly installed backer or tiles. You also said the noise by the sink was caused by a plank subfloor. What plank would that be? You said the subfloor is OSB.

Versabond is decent and is good enough for under the Hardie and tiles too. You can even use a cheaper thin set for under the backer since it's not there to bond, but to support the CBU. Mix it a bit runny for under the Hardie. Are the subfloor sheets gapped, joints peaked or perfectly flat?

Jaz
 
  #9  
Old 08-01-15, 10:52 AM
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It's an OSB, I could see some pealed wood strands in some areas. I jumped up/down at various locations, and they are solid. The noise is coming from the circled area (arrows are the nails) in the photo. It's not loud, it's like deep faint "poong" sound. And the joists seem to be 24" spaced, and one just below the cabinet, so I won't be able to screw the floor down without removing the sink/cabinet. It's not that bad, so I may just leave it.

The subfloor sheets are butted each other, I don't see any gaps. Some joints on the subfloor sheets are peaked, not flat. Instead of sanding them, couldn't I just use the thinset to make it flat?

I'm gonna finish with the hardibacker board, today. And start tiling 16"x16" tiles.

Thanks.

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  #10  
Old 08-01-15, 03:58 PM
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OH...... you started the work today, let us know in case you didn't.

Jaz
 
  #11  
Old 08-02-15, 09:21 AM
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I started Monday. I finished removing the tiles, backerboards, and cleaned up on Friday.

Yesterday evening, began to measure and cut backerboards. I accidentally broke one of the piece as I was trying to position it. It was little tight. Took some time to cut it, should I cut a new piece or can I use thinset and tape?

I'm hoping to finish cutting today and start securing tomorrow. Juggling between work and daily activities, this project is a slow progress, enjoyable hobby and stress reliever.

Would appreciate any hint, if you see anything I should do differently, or see an issue. Thanks.

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  #12  
Old 08-02-15, 11:35 AM
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I would think you can just use thinset and tape in the crack, it should be ok. I wouldn't replace that piece. Make sure you have an impact driver for your backer screws, that was one mistake I made. I tried using my regular drill and it wouldn't drive them all the way in, and many stripped.
 
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Old 08-02-15, 11:38 AM
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I think JAZ was head banging because you had not finished your discussion on the subfloor. Tile needs a very stiff floor and yours being 24" on center is even more critical that it is addressed. You noted cracked grout before - that is the result of movement. Now is the time to address before you start securing things.
 
  #14  
Old 08-02-15, 04:10 PM
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I would try to get those subfloor joints as flat as possible and keep the backerboard joints away from them if its not too late. I learned the hard way on that issue. My neighbor didn't get his subfloor stiff enough and used a thin layer of thinset with a v-notch trowel under his backerboard and all his grout has been cracking just after install. Once you start, you can't go back.
 
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Old 08-02-15, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Czizzi
I think JAZ was head banging because you had not finished your discussion on the subfloor. Tile needs a very stiff floor and yours being 24" on center is even more critical that it is addressed. You noted cracked grout before - that is the result of movement. Now is the time to address before you start securing things.
"Z" is absolutely right, that's why I was head-banging.

I see several problems.

Joists that are 24" oc, not good.

Single layer " OSB subfloor that may not be gapped correctly. Evidence, no space between sheets, some joints are peaked. Old floor showed signs of too much flex.

Let us know if you'd like the 2nd installation to work better. If so, lets start with the size of the joists, and their unsupported span to the inch. Verify the 24" oc, and see if you can find any stampings on the joists that tell you their species and grade.

Jaz
 
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