Bathroom and hallway floor updates

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  #1  
Old 08-13-15, 01:13 PM
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Bathroom and hallway floor updates

Hello experts!!! I purchased a 1940s cape cod with charm, but in need of updates!!! Working on putting in porcelain floor, running from galley kitchen to welcome hallway. (Same porcelain for both) under the kitchen floor is plywood with a bunch of thinset stuck on it(other than that in good shape) in the hallway was a different strandy material and then straight to pine subfloor. Assuming I need to take the hallway down to the pine and put in cement bbd, for the kitchen should I try and re-use the plywood or take it out(I guess cut it out) and put in cement base? Please help)) will try and figure out how to post pictures
 
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Old 08-13-15, 01:22 PM
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I would only put floor tile down on cement board or Hardie Backer or a similar substrate intended for tile. It's not about your floor's strength or condition but what the thinset can adhere to strongly.
 
  #3  
Old 08-13-15, 02:57 PM
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Plywood

Thanks for the response! What would be the grey way to take out the plywood in its entirety? Just cut it out ?
 
  #4  
Old 08-13-15, 03:56 PM
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grey=good ?

It depends on how the plywood is fastened down. If possible I pry up one edge and if it was only nailed so/so then I can just pull up on the sheet using the sheet's size for leverage to pull the remaining nails. If it's screwed or if the nails are really in solid I'll set my circular saw to cut the same thickness as they plywood and cut it up into manageable size pieces and start ripping.
 
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Old 08-14-15, 11:17 AM
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Hi Matt,

We need more info to be able to help.

Once you can confirm the framing is adequate for ceramic tiles, you will install the concrete backer or tile membrane over plywood or proper OSB underlayment. You do not install the backer over pine planks, (if that's what you have? But you said the hall has strandy material and then straight to pine subfloor. Does that mean it's OSB? (oriented strand board).

Are both areas at the same level?

Tell us about how the floor is framed; The size of the joists, their on center spacing, the unsupported span, (ie. 11' 8".) If you knew the species and grade, that would be helpful. Pics always help.

Jaz
 
  #6  
Old 08-16-15, 04:04 PM
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OK hoping the attachment came through. I took all plywood out and now have the PINE Toungue and groove planks running at the same height through the kitchen and hallway.

After reading what you wrote maybe I shouldn't have taken out the plywood? There was just so much thinset stuck on it from the cermics I moved

The attached picture is exactly what it looks like from the basement as well.

there was previous ceramic tile in the kitchen and it was in great shape (just outdated)

What should the next steps be, before laying down the porcelain tile?
 
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  #7  
Old 08-16-15, 04:13 PM
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this is the view from the basement
 
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  #8  
Old 08-16-15, 07:10 PM
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Matt,

The next step would be to answer the following from above.

Originally Posted by Jaz
Tell us about how the floor is framed; The size of the joists, their on center spacing, the unsupported span, (ie. 11' 8".) If you knew the species and grade, that would be helpful.
If all that works out OK, you'll repair or replace any bad planks and refasten all at every joist intersection. Then we'll help you decide how thick an underlayment you need, then comes the tile backer. Finally the easy part, the tiles.

Jaz
 
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Old 08-17-15, 08:00 AM
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thanks Jaz- I will collect this information later this afternoon. Not sure how to tell the species and grade of the wood though?

For the measurements just measure basically how thick the joists are and how long, as well as the unsupported space between them?

sorry if these are beginner questions!!!
 
  #10  
Old 08-17-15, 03:05 PM
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The joists are 1+1/2 inch x 9 inch and center to center is 16 inch
 
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Old 08-17-15, 03:25 PM
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The species is red fir as well
 
  #12  
Old 08-17-15, 06:45 PM
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OK, so you've got 2x10" which should be around 1.5" x 9.25". 16" oc is normal, so good. I just need the unsupported span. Usually this would be from the outer basement wall to the steel I-beam towards the center. Measure accurately. The pic shows some of the joists that seems to have lots of knots which would indicate a low grade. Also look for notches and holes someone may have made after construction for pipes or?

Lumber usually have stampings that tell you their species and grade. I'm not holding by breath you'll find any in this case though.

Your subfloor is what? - ⅞" by 6" wide?

* Red fir? Not heard of that one. Maybe Douglas Fir? Any grade marks?

Jaz
 
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Old 08-18-15, 08:12 AM
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Hey Jaz, thanks again for the support here!

Unsupported span is 12' 6" and the subfloor is 3/4 by 6" wide

Let me know what would be next, I am down to the subfloor in all areas and ready for next step.
 
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Old 08-18-15, 09:57 AM
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This is where knowing the species and grade would really help. If the joists were #2, most species would meet or barely meet the minimum recs. at 12'6". If they're #3, none meet the standards for tile. How does the floor feel?

Look up from the basement and have two people weighing at least #300 simultaneously step on the same small spot. Alternate from above the center span of the joists to between the joists. Do this in several areas. Alternatively you could build a simple jib that would measure the deflection after loading #300 on and between the joists.

As for the subfloor deflection, you need to add min. " underlayment grade ply, thicker is better. You can choose OSB to save a few $$ per sheet. Then install a concrete backer or membrane such as Ditra. Ask about installing the underlayment once you decide which you're gonna use.

Jaz
 
  #15  
Old 08-18-15, 01:31 PM
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the floor feels good, deffinetly not noticing anything concerning, especially when I have a couple people standing on overhead. Also the tile that was there previously was in great condition, no cracks.

next steps I am going to pick up the 1/2" plywood, cut that and get that down...would it be better to nail or screw that in?

as far as the concrete backer or member, how should I choose the thickness? I am going to come up higher that I was before with the previous tile so that is the only concern I have
 
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Old 08-18-15, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt
the floor feels good, deffinetly not noticing anything concerning, especially when I have a couple people standing on overhead. Also the tile that was there previously was in great condition, no cracks.
Well, ok, it's your house. Don't brush this off by saying the old tiles were fine. I've seen the same, but in actuality there were many hairline cracks in the grout which usually can't easily be seen. The span chart says at best the joists are marginal if grade #2. The good thing is bouncy joists are not as bad as deflection in the subfloor between the joists.

" underlayment spaced and oriented correctly should be good enough if the planks are in very good shape. Nails or screws? Nails, ring-shank nails, min. 1 " or even 1 ".

" cbu is for floors and what's recommended. " cbu will be at least 5/16" installed. Ditra is better and only ⅛" installed. Easier, but cost about 2x more.

Have you checked the floor's flatness yet?

Jaz
 
  #17  
Old 08-19-15, 08:04 AM
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Haven't checked the flatness yet, Are there certain points I should check? Also what is the correct spacing and orientation to put the plywood in?
 
  #18  
Old 08-19-15, 08:53 AM
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The floor needs to be within " of the required plane in any 10 ft. radius, and within 1/16" in 12". Use a long straight edge set at high points measuring down to any low spots. This is good enough for ceramic tiles with no side larger than 15". For larger tiles, smooth shiny tiles, natural stone tiles, a flatter substrate is required.

Your plywood underlayment is installed perpendicular to the joists, like the subfloor, spaced ⅛" and nailed only to the subfloor, no glue. Leave at least " gaps around the perimeter and any solid vertical objects.

Jaz
 
  #19  
Old 08-19-15, 01:33 PM
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leave an 1/8" between the plywood sheets and 1/4" from walls etc, I am assuming incase of expanding etc...?

do I leave this much room with the ditra as well?
 
  #20  
Old 08-19-15, 06:30 PM
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No, Ditra is completely different. You butt the seams and can fit it fairly close to vertical objects. But of course the tiles will stay short of solid objects or slipped under after undercutting where possible.

Jaz
 
  #21  
Old 08-24-15, 06:00 PM
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just picked up the plywood and am a little concerned about how high the floor will come up with the two layers under the tile. Should I just go with it and trouble shoot after? It seems like I have no choice if this is the only base that will be suitable to providing a sufficient base to the tiles?
 
  #22  
Old 08-24-15, 06:27 PM
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Why do you think it's too much? Which plywood did you get?

Jaz
 
  #23  
Old 08-24-15, 06:59 PM
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I bought 15/32" 4x8' Plywood (3-p) from Home Depot. 19.65 each. I guess I am just thinking previously the tile was on just the plywood, now im adding an extra layer in there.
 
  #24  
Old 08-24-15, 07:26 PM
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I not sure you bought the right stuff. Are these the details or something else? Model # 166073 Internet # 100067329 Store SKU # 166073

Jaz
 
  #25  
Old 08-25-15, 06:46 AM
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that is what I bought...what are your thoughts on coming up to high with the end size of the floor?
 
  #26  
Old 08-25-15, 10:58 AM
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That's not the proper plywood for this job. Will it still be good enough? Probably, who knows?

As for the height.... You went with the thinnest recommended underlayment cuz you must believe your plank subfloor is in excellent condition and if you install Ditra instead of concrete board, you can't go any thinner.

The only thing you could do is to remove the subfloor and install 3/4" subfloor grade ply or OSB, then the backer or membrane and then the tiles. That's a lot of extra work but it'll bring the construction style into the '70's.

Jaz
 
  #27  
Old 08-25-15, 05:22 PM
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why is this the wrong plywood???
 
  #28  
Old 08-25-15, 08:35 PM
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Maybe your store doesn't carry this one.... 15/32 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. BC Sanded Pine Plywood-166030 - The Home Depot You chose to save several $$ per sheet, The one you have is not made with waterproof glue and is so rated. It's called "Sheathing" which is ok for walls when they're gonna be covered and protected from moisture. I mentioned 'underlayment grade' but maybe no one at the store to assist you.

The sheathing ply may also have voids which is not a good thing for floors. Also 3 ply instead of the typical 5 plies. The face grade is also lower and not sanded.

Jaz
 
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