Porcelain tile over 2 layers of vinyl tile/linoleum?

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  #1  
Old 09-07-18, 01:55 PM
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Porcelain tile over 2 layers of vinyl tile/linoleum?

I plan to install 12 x 24 porcelain tiles in my kitchen and, upon removing my baseboards, I discovered a layer of linoleum underneath the visible layer of vinyl tiles. The horror!

Do I have to remove both layers before I lay my porcelain tiles? I know it will be a big messy job to do the removal so I only want to go there if completely necessary.

I have checked the floor with a level and there is currently no more than a 1/4" to 1/2" variance from wall to wall. I understand the larger the tile the less allowance for variance and I anticipate that if I remove the 2 layers of existing floor that I may have a more even surface to work with. Is this likely? I live in a condo on the ground floor and I am sure there is concrete underneath the layers.

Any thoughts or suggestions will be much appreciated!
 
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  #2  
Old 09-07-18, 03:38 PM
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You need a solid surface to install any type of tile, so there is no question that the vinyl has to go,

The next question is whats under the vinyl, you probable will need some type of CBU but need to know what is there!
 
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Old 09-07-18, 03:50 PM
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Use a rotary hammer and sharp sds chisel to remove the vinyl from the concrete. Or you can rent a larger tile scraper machine to do it. After the vinyl is removed, there will be glue and some backing left.... so there are scarifying machines that blast the concrete with ball bearings to chip off any residue that can't be removed any other way.
 
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Old 09-07-18, 04:58 PM
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Yes, vinyl needs to go. Do you have a slab underneath or a traditional framed subfloor?
 
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Old 09-07-18, 08:10 PM
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Thanks for the responses and suggestions - much appreciated. I really don't know what is under the second layer so I'll take both layers off in a spot under the fridge and see what's there. If I can't figure it out I'll post a pic.
 
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Old 09-09-18, 09:04 AM
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Fill perimeter gap before tiling over vinyl?

So these layers are really stuck on and it's going to be extremely difficult to remove both. I'm considering tiling over the layers though I know many would advise against this. If I go this route do I need to fill in the perimeter gap from the vinyl to the wall so the entire tile will be supported? What material would I use for this? I have checked all over the internet and can't find an answer.
 
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Old 09-09-18, 12:00 PM
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You cant, the tile needs a solid, non flexible surface to be installed on.

if you try it will fail miserably and you will then have an even bigger mess to resolve.

Either do it right or just dont do anything.
 
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Old 09-09-18, 12:10 PM
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Thanks Marq1. I've been feeling uneasy about the over vinyl x 2 install and it's because it feels wrong to do. I'm going to start yanking up those tiles today and do the job how it should be done.
 
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Old 09-09-18, 02:16 PM
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vinyl removed ... now left with black cut-back adhesive

Surprisingly the vinyl and linoleum came up very easily and quickly. I'm now left with a black adhesive - which I think is cut-back adhesive - on concrete. The floor only has one small hole (see pic - approx 1/4" deep by 2" wide) and is otherwise intact. If I get the right mastic can I tile over the cut-back? Thanks!
 
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Old 09-09-18, 02:51 PM
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Cutback adhesive often contains asbestos. If that worries you might have it tested to be sure. You can attempt to chemically strip it, hire out the removal to a company, or rent the scarifier that I mentioned in my very first post. You need clean concrete for your thinset to bond to.
 
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Old 09-09-18, 05:22 PM
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Thanks XSleeper. I can't work with this until I know there is no asbestos so I'll make enquiries into having it tested tomorrow. Fingers crossed that it's not!
 
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Old 09-18-18, 06:59 PM
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Just a quick update on that cut-back adhesive. There was no asbestos so I went ahead and removed the cut-back with low-odour varsol, a blade scraper and lots of paper towels. It took 4 litres of varsol and 11hrs of filthy work to get it up but I now have clean concrete to work from. Here's a new floor pic ... minus all that yuck!
 
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Old 09-18-18, 07:08 PM
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Nice job, I know that's a very messy one!
 
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Old 09-18-18, 07:53 PM
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Do not use mastic, you want a good thinset from a bag that you mix from powder to set your tiles. Anything that can sit in a bucket pre-mixed for a year or so, will not perform as well as a portland cement based product that hardens based on a reaction not air drying. Plus, if you are using large format tile, mastic is not recommended to be used at all as it will never dry out.
 
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Old Yesterday, 08:27 AM
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Thanks guys. Czizzi, I did purchase large format tile mortar that I'll mix myself as I go along. My condo also requires that I install soundproofing underlayment so that will be the next step. It's Easymat Soundgard peel & stick and I realized last night that I'll need a primer for that so it's another trip to Home Depot today!
 
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Old Yesterday, 08:36 AM
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You stated that you live in a condo on the ground floor. Why would you need soundproofing? Are you sure those rules are not for the floors above you?
 
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Old Yesterday, 08:53 AM
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Soundproofing on ground floor

There is no getting around the soundproofing as the condo management treats every unit the same whether ground or 30th floor. I'm not thrilled that I have to spend $200 + on these materials but it's a requirement and they've been known to conduct mid-project inspections.

Edit: I found some conflicting info about kitchen soundproofing in our bylaws so I'm going to make more enquiries before moving forward
 

Last edited by LauraYYZ; Yesterday at 09:13 AM. Reason: Additional information
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