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metal dry wall patch - will it be smooth or did i mess up?

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  #1  
Old 01-26-05, 02:01 PM
fish_taste_good
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Question metal dry wall patch - will it be smooth or did i mess up?

Hello,

I am remodeling a bathroom and I recently knocked out an old style towel bar. Little did I know there was a hole behind the two pieces that hold the towel bar on the wall. Well, I went to the local hardware store and purchased The Wallboard Tools Repair patch. It is metal, with a self adhesive backing.

I followed the directions on the package, and I used joint compound instead of spackling (I found the dry times out after starting).

Anyways, my question is how will the metal be flat on the wall? After I applied the first coat of joint compound, then sanded it with the sanding sponge I bought, I applied another coat of joint compound. It seems as though this process will never yield a "flat wall". Should I tear the patch out and buy a piece, and do the "hat" repair? Or will it visually be flat since it will be blended in with the wall after all the sanding.

Thanks,

Alan
 
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  #2  
Old 01-26-05, 09:18 PM
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Using that method your going to have to feather out your mud a long ways, probably at least 2-3 feet around the actual damage and sand to feather it back in. This will take the raised heigth of the patch and mud on top of that and project that into a larger span so the raised heigth woont be so noticable.

Better option:

Take that crap back off before you get in too deep. Cut a peice of scrap wood long enough you can slide it through the hole and then pull it back and hold it in place with drywall screws driven through the finished wall surface into the peice of wood. This will serve as a backer to screw a peice of drywall to. You want to get that patched in peice slightly below the surface of your finished wall, it will make mudding and blending lot easier. If you have to knock out some more plaster/drywall to get a peice of wood back there, so be it, your patching anyways. Once you blend it back into the surrounding walls it will not be noticable, then just get some of that "texture in a can" from a home center to blend the wall texture back into your existing wall.

As far as scrap drywall, you wont need to buy an entire sheet, I usually go to our wholesaler or homecenter and get a few peices from the blocks they stack sheets of drywall on. They work and they're free
 
  #3  
Old 01-27-05, 09:31 AM
fish_taste_good
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thanks fir the quick reply. I am starting to think that the metal patch idea was not the best way to go.

You really think that I would have to do it out two or three feet from the patch area? That seems like over kill to me. The patch can't be much more than a few millimeters raised above the wall. I do worry about the metal showing through. I guess i will find out after i go mess with it after work. I think I may buy some spackling to help with the dry time. The joint compound takes way too long.


THe hole is pretty small, maybe 2x3 inches wide. I think the backing idea may be a little too much.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks,

alan
 
  #4  
Old 01-27-05, 10:02 AM
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Is the patch about the same thickness as fiberglass mesh tape? Even though the hole is on 2"x3" it may not take exactly 2-3' of blending but your going to have to go out a ways so that spot will not be noticable, how far that it will depend on how well your patch job goes and how pickey you are. I get paid to fix problems like this so I have to make it invisible, but most homeowner solutions are, "whatever it takes, just so I dont have a hole" even though the finished product will show like a sore thumb.

I'm sure the patch sticks up a little bit, now you have to put mud over that so now your stacking another layer, by the time you have it built up enough to not show the metal patch the hump will noticable and like I said how invisible you want it to appear will dictate how far out you need to blend.
 
  #5  
Old 01-27-05, 05:07 PM
fish_taste_good
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Everything makes perfect sense.

I do not need it to be "whatever it takes so i don't have a whole in the wall". I want it so it will not be noticable unless you look for it.

So far i have it looking pretty good, at least to my eyes and without painting. I am going to try priming it, and then painting it once the primer dries.

I do have to worry about the texture though. There is a slight texture to the wall which i think will help hide the slight height difference.

what do you think.

thanks,

Tripp
 
  #6  
Old 01-27-05, 05:46 PM
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The texture will be your call, hard to say since I cannot see what your orking with. Before you prime, just be sure to run your hand back and forth over the work area, if you can feel a raised edge or hump you will see it in the paint.
 
  #7  
Old 01-28-05, 06:54 AM
fish_taste_good
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Thanks for all your help on this. I really appreciate it.

In regards to the texture, I assume i would apply it before i prime the area. Correct?

I also was wondering if I really need to prime the area. I had a few "home repair" friends over last night and two of them said it wasn't needed. Should i prime the area, or do you think this is going to make the painted area much darker than the rest of the wall? The prime is white in color.

The paint I am going to use is flat paint, and the color can be seen here:
http://www.coveragesolutions.net/ima...do/kitchen.jpg

Thanks again for your help.

Sincerely,

ALan
 
  #8  
Old 01-28-05, 07:39 AM
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Yes, texture goes on before you prime/paint.

I'm not a professional painter/stainer, have no desire since I throughly hate the process LOL!! On all my personal homes I've gutted and remodeled, I've never used primer. It's six to one and half dozen to another I guess, I usually buy the better quality paint and it takes 2 coats on new walls. Or you could probably buy primer and medium quality paint and try to get away with 2 coats (1 of each). Maybe a pinter will chime in with this one.

Even on repairs I've done around my place and other homeowners, I and they have never used primer, everybody I've dealt with has just used the paint and gone over the repaired area. Once it's dried you cannot tell you did anything.

When blending in the texture, depending on what kind you currently have-I'll just use orange peel as an example. If you use the texture in a can, you can experiment with the different tube diameters and distance your spraying from to the work surface to get a finish that's very close and unnoticible when your done. I like to go about 3' past the repaired area and "feather" in the texture so it's less attracting to the eye that, "hmmm why does that area of the wall look so different thatn the others" feathering it out wont draw any direct attention to the area-basically tricks the eye.
 
  #9  
Old 01-31-05, 09:04 AM
fish_taste_good
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Thanks for your help. I dont think I am going to prime after reading alot about it. It is pretty good paint, to my knowledge. I think its Bear or something like that. I am drawing this from memory as I havent looked at the can since i Moved in.

I applied the texture and did the whole "knockdown" affect in the area where its at. After appling it, I am starting to think the texture on the wall might have been from the paint brush. I am going to paint the area that I Have patched and then I will see what it looks like. If it doesnt match, then I will be doing the whole bathroom in the knockdown affect.

As for painting my entire bathroom, how much do i need to sand the walls, then clean, and then repaint? There are some areas where the paint that has been applied previously is cracked, sort of like a lake bed that dries out. I dont know what this is from, but it has been there since I moved in.

Thanks for your help and I apologize for this turning out to be a never ending thread. I am the kind of person that wants it done right the first time.

Thanks,

ALan
 
  #10  
Old 01-31-05, 10:34 AM
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As for painting my entire bathroom, how much do i need to sand the walls, then clean, and then repaint? There are some areas where the paint that has been applied previously is cracked, sort of like a lake bed that dries out. I dont know what this is from, but it has been there since I moved in.
I always use a pva primer before painting any freshly mudded drywall. Learned my lesson long ago doing an addition. Hung and mudded the ceiling and walls, customer was kinda cheap, so we didn't use any primer, even after the knockdown was shot and 2 coats of paint, you could still see the seams in the ceiling especially. Besides, read the label on any name brand paint, it'll say something on there about surfaces being, clean, dry, properly prepared.

Use a fine grit paper over the entire surface, then make sure it's completely free of dust, residue of any kind, and completely dry. That part about the painted cracked like a lake bed, sounds like a excess moisture problem. This bathroom got an exhaust fan in it? If not I'd make it a high priority item. HTH
 
  #11  
Old 01-31-05, 01:37 PM
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Definately install a vent fan in the bathroom if there is'nt onw already, it you do it right it's just a matter of cutting the hole for the thing to fit with no drywall patch work

For those "dry lakebed" areas before you paint everything, go ahead and just throw a skim coat of mud in there to level it back out to the finished wall surface and sadn/blend accordingly.

I leave the painting to my wife here at home and subs on a job site if needed so awesomedell has the advise on that aspect of the deal.
 
  #12  
Old 01-31-05, 03:17 PM
fish_taste_good
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Thanks you two. I am done patching the walls where I removed the towel bar and the toilet paper holder. They look great so far. Pretty smooth too, so they should be noticed at all.

As for the "dry lakebed" areas, this is what I have done so far. I sanded them to remove the rough areas, and then went over them with a coat of spackling. After the spackling has dried, I sand the area to level it out. So far, I like the results. I hope this is ok.

There is a fan in there so I donít know where the moisture problem started. In my opinion, and I am not a painter by any means, it looks as though the previous people just put one super thin coat of paint on the walls extremely quickly. I think that they may have sanded the walls and then used a wet sponge to wipe it down, the wall might not have been completely dry when they painted it.

Is this is a possibility? And just so you know, it is only a half bath. Only a toilet and a sink.

Thanks again.

Alan
 
  #13  
Old 02-01-05, 01:11 AM
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sounds like you're on the right track Alan, since it's just a 1/2 bath, the exhaust fan isn't that critical like it would be in the case of a full bath with a tub & shower.
 
  #14  
Old 02-02-05, 12:40 PM
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Hello all,

I just wanted to say that for the time being, i am done with the bathroom. All i have left is the baseboards. They should be easy to do.

The walls turned out great. The paint is a little uneven in a few spots on only one wall, but I can only see them when the light is on and i look into the mirror and then look at the wall. Why is this?

If I apply a second coat of paint to that particulkar wall, will it be much darker than the others? It is the largest wall in the bathroom.

Thanks again, and I really do appreciate all the help. I cant wait to takle my kitchen. Painted over wall paper and cabinet refacing.

Thanks - Alan
 
  #15  
Old 02-02-05, 02:57 PM
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You dont see dead people standing next to the paint spots when looking in the mirror do you??!! Probably just the way light is reflecting, are you the only one that notices it or is it plainly obvious to anybody? You could throw on another coat and I dont think it'll darken very much, if at all. Even if it did slightly darken it, it's better than looking at tiger stripes.

Glad to hear everything turned out for you!
 
  #16  
Old 02-03-05, 07:20 AM
fish_taste_good
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I see dead people

Actually, I am happy with the walls so I am going to leave them alone. As my parents said when they came over yesterday to help install the new fridge, "You know where the imperfections are so they stand out to you."

I never thought of that but it makes perfect sense.

Now the trim is a different story. I tried painting that yesterday, and I guess the pain was pretty old. It came out with a bluish hue (Can this be caused by the brush hitting the blue painters tape? I used a foam style brush.) to it and when I went to lift up the paint can to move it, I had a large puddle of paint under it. It seems to have rusted through the bottom. I had to make an aluminum foil band-aid to prevent the paint from going all over the place.

It will have to be redone for sure. I think this time I will prime the trim.

Have any ideas on selecting colors? I am thinking of going with a straight semi-gloss white. Unfortunatly, it seems as thought the trim in the house is different shades all over. Kindof ugly now that I am actually looking at it.

THanks,

alan
 
  #17  
Old 02-03-05, 10:56 AM
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How well did you stir the paint? Usually when it sits for relly long periods all the dye settles to the bottom and it takes a good long stirring to get it all rasied back up in suspension and mixed back into the base color. I've never had masking tape "bleed" color so I think that's unlikely.

Alot of peoples homes that have painted trim usually opt for Satin finish, it blends in better in the overall scheme of things as opposed to having a semi gloss finish, but ultimately you may want to just talk with the people your buying your paint from and see what they recommend. Selelcting colors has always been tough since it never really goes on and dries to the exact hue you see on the color chip, usually it dires a little darker than what the color chip of paper is showing. Typically I've heard you want to go about 1-2 shades lighter than the color you want so it will look like that color after you apply it and it dries.

You yourself will always know where flaws were/are at since you are the one that did the repair. 99% of onlookers will never notice the difference, most wont even notice even after you point it out. I do this all the time with my race/show car. I know where all the tiny details are lacking and never knowing to shut up I seem to point out all the flaws, but still most people still dont know what I'm talking about and other say they did'nt notice anything until I point it out. We that do the work and care about the finished product are the worst critics!!
 
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