Soundproofing project advice

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  #1  
Old 02-02-05, 12:53 AM
heavi5ide
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Soundproofing project advice

Hi all. I've been trying to gain some knowledge on the basics of erecting an interior wall, and have been reading a lot of the good stuff on this forum. My band has just leased a large room in Brooklyn for use as a rehearsal space. The building is industrial-type; it has a loading dock, and many of the floors are nothing but rows of storage lockers. All of the rooms on our floor are larger (ours is 14 x 30 feet) and most are used by artists, sculptors, etc. The floors and ceilings are concrete, and our windowed wall is concrete as well. The other three walls are sheetrock and apparently leak a lot of sound (we did some tests with the t-shirt artist in the room next to ours). After doing a bit of reading, I've come up with a basic plan:

1. Make sure the existing walls don't have any air leaks. Caulk any openings around pipes, outlets, etc.

2. Seal the edges of the door as well as possible with weatherstripping etc.

3. Build three new wood-and-sheetrock (on one side) walls in a "U" shape that covers completely all of the existing sheetrock walls, forming a "soundproof" room inside of the real room. The new walls won't touch the old walls at all, and the 4-6 inches between the walls will be filled with fiberglass insulation. The new walls will be sealed tight to the concrete floor and ceiling and to the concrete wall that has the windows on it. The new wall opposite the windows will have a sealed, solid-core wooden door in it that will lead to what remains of the "real" room and allow access to the "real" door.

I've got a couple questions that I was hoping you experts out there can help answer:

1. How effective do you think this will be if done correctly? My band plays rock, and can get loud, but we don't play super-loud stuff.

2. Considering that when we move out of this place we'll have to leave it as we found it, I don't think I can bolt the bottom plates of the walls to the concrete floor. A guy at a local hardware store suggested Liquid Nails. Should this work? If so, how much should I buy if my total combined wall length will be about 60 feet?

3. Any suggestions on what I should use to seal the new walls to the ceiling? I guess normal interior wall construction normally involves nailing or screwing the top plate into a ceiling joist, but I've got concrete up there that I don't think I can drill into...

We're planning on buying materials in a couple of days, so any quick ideas or advice would be very much appreciated! Thanks.

Nick
 
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  #2  
Old 02-02-05, 03:22 AM
awesomedell's Avatar
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Hello Nick and welcome to the forums.

Sounds like you've got a pretty fair plan. Look at a lumber yard or home center for concrete nails. You can drive these with a like 1 lb hammer and a good arm. You could also use a tool called a ramset to attach the new walls to the concrete floor & ceiling. Hilti is a good brand & the type I use, this type of tool uses a special blank .22 caliber blank cartridge to fire what are called pins thru the wood & into the concrete. You can buy a hand fired one that you strike with a hammer to fire it for less than $40, Remington makes them I know & they have them in the big box stores. Also a double layer of 5/8" sheetrock would help out alot on the soundproofing. There is also a product on the market called quiet-rock that has very good sound proofing properties, but it's a bit pricey compared to regular rock.

As to how much material to buy, I know you said the entire space is 14'x30', but the wall will be smaller than that. Here's a link to a good on-line calculator, it'll figure how much board and how much mud, nails etc you'll need. http://www.cyberyard.com/calculators...alerid=&view=4
Hope that helps a little and rock on my man.
 

Last edited by awesomedell; 02-02-05 at 03:46 AM.
  #3  
Old 02-02-05, 02:38 PM
heavi5ide
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Hi awesomedell and thanks for the tips! After thinking about this a bit more, and considering that I'll have to attach the top plates to the 9 and a half foot ceiling, I'm leaning towards the ramset option. It seems like it might be too difficult for a relative novice to hammer a concrete nail into the ceiling. I found a Ramset on the HD website for $20. It's a "single shot hammer actuated tool utilizing .22 caliber loads." It says that it's powder-activated -- does that mean that each pin has some sort of gunpowder attached to it to fire it, or does this type still require a CO2 cartridge or something? I'm also looking to keep costs down...

If you'll bear with me, I have another question: how bad would it be to not secure the top plate against the ceiling? A thought I had awhile ago was to build the frame on the floor and then stand it up, and have it be just the right height to get to the ceiling. Then I could seal up the top edge with caulk or something. This seems like it could be somewhat dangerous though, especially since the walls will only have sheetrock on the inside, so that weight will be pulling the walls inward. The walls will be in a "U" type shape though, which I think would stabilize them a good deal. Any thoughts?

Thanks again! It's great to find an online forum that's this active!

Nick
 
  #4  
Old 02-03-05, 03:59 PM
heavi5ide
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Just went to the huge chain hardware store, and left a bit more confused than I went in. I found the hammer-driven Ramset that I saw online, and was thinking about that option, but I didn't see the .22 caliber blanks anywhere. Wasn't really anyone around to ask about this either. Does anyone know if I need to be licensed to use this sort of tool?

There was a Hilti representative in another section, and he said I could rent a trigger-fired fastening system from him, but it would be about $40 for the day. That doesn't seem so bad... I don't think I'd have much use for one of those outside of this special project anyway. He also mentioned that I could rent a nail gun from the store to do the same thing, or a hammer drill.

Can anyone help me sort out my options here? I pretty much understand what this Ramset thing is, but I'm not sure quite what a hammer drill does, and I wasn't aware that a nail gun could penetrate concrete. I'm basically looking to do this on the cheap, although I understand there's a minimum I'll have to spend to have my wall anchored securely to the floor and ceiling. We're going to try to buy materials tomorrow night so that we can get as much work done over the weekend as possible, so I need to figure this important piece out soon.

Thanks again,
Nick
 
  #5  
Old 02-03-05, 04:25 PM
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Hey Nick,

Sorry I overlooked you you for a min there. Go with the model you looked at, you have to buy both the pins (nails) and the charges (.22 blanks). You load a pin into the barrel, then load a charge and you're ready to fire it. The pins come in various lengths, if you using 2"x lumber a 2" or 2-1/4" pin would be long enough. The charges also come in various power levels, pins are usually in a clear plastic pack (you know, one of those packages that takes super human strength of a sharp pocket knife to get into), the charges are in different colored boxes depending on their power. You need like a 16oz framing hammer to fire this thing, (don't hit your hand, it'll hurt alot trust me I've done it.

I'm a bit brain dead from working on taxes today, but if I remember right you're going to want to buy the ones in the yellow box. I'm assuming you looking at a remington ramset, that's the one I've seen at the local HD.

The pins and charges (blanks) are generally on a shelf just below where the tools are displayed. I understand you plight with the big box mega stores, personally I only go to them when I absolutely have to. Give me a small dad & son operation anytime, they do usually charge a bit more, but they make up for the difference 10 times over with service. Hope that helps, post back if you've got anymore questions, I'll check back in here later tonight.
 
  #6  
Old 02-05-05, 11:08 AM
Rocknroll
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You can add sound deadening materials to the walls, which will help. The material is used for studios and is extremely effective. Musician's Friend used to sell it, don't know if they still do or not. It's triangular-shaped, and comes in panels. You can find ads in the back of Guitar Player mag. We also use it in the studio to separate instruments while recording.

The big problem you'll have to face is how to insulate the kick drum and your Bassist's cab. Most of their sound is not radiated, but is conducted. Why you "feel" the bass. In my opinion, there's nothing you can do to fix this, beause even if you use standoffs, as soon as their sound hits a wall, because of the frequency response of the wall, there will be significant low-end coupling, and the bass will get propogated throughout the structure. You might find others complaining about the "thump thump thump".

An alternative is to have beer during practice sessions and invite other residents over during practice. It helps create a following, and those folks will likely show up when you perform.

Rock
 
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