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Wall removal and roof question?


JETMECH727's Avatar
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02-21-07, 07:40 AM   #1  
Wall removal and roof question?

I'd like to remove what appears to be a load bearing wall. It's not a major bearing wall, at least I don't think it is. It appears to be supporting the load of a sheetrock ceiling in the area of 11 feet by 12 feet. My major concern here, is roof thrust load. I have a hip roof and am wondering if the roof is supporting itself through its own self contained structure, and is just sitting on the outside walls, or is it pushing out on the outside walls, and the joists are keeping things held together? Here are a couple of pictures. One is of the attic and roof truss, the other is a crude not to scale drawing of whats happening up there. There is just an attic above the wall in question. This wall is parrellel to the floor joists.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/jetmech727/100_0649.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/jetmech727/scan-1.jpg

 
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02-22-07, 05:41 AM   #2  
You do not want to even think of removing this wall without the advice of a structural architect.

 
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02-23-07, 12:53 AM   #3  
"http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/jetmech727/100_0649.jpg"

What a convoluted mess. It reassembles armature framing hour.

As constructed, the roof is essentially self supporting.

The most important framing member in that photo are the braces from every other rafter tie, which are kicked down to something, (I assume, photo does not show it though), which without a purlin rafter, which when correctly installed, occurs at the rafter tie/rafter intersection, are virtually of no structural value, other than unnecessarily loading another framing member.

Temporarily support the ceiling whose joists end over the wall to be removed, remove the wall, install your choice of support beam, properly sized, either recessed or dropped, with the appropriate fasteners to support the ceiling, remove the temp. wall and finish the interior.

 
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02-23-07, 04:50 AM   #4  
Posted By: Snoonyb "http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/jetmech727/100_0649.jpg"

What a convoluted mess. It reassembles armature framing hour.

As constructed, the roof is essentially self supporting.

The most important framing member in that photo are the braces from every other rafter tie, which are kicked down to something, (I assume, photo does not show it though), which without a purlin rafter, which when correctly installed, occurs at the rafter tie/rafter intersection, are virtually of no structural value, other than unnecessarily loading another framing member.

Temporarily support the ceiling whose joists end over the wall to be removed, remove the wall, install your choice of support beam, properly sized, either recessed or dropped, with the appropriate fasteners to support the ceiling, remove the temp. wall and finish the interior.
Thanks. Those braces are coming down on top of the middle load bearing wall that have the joists running front to back. One comes down to the little stub wall that is right on the corner of the main load wall. I plan on fastening two 2x12's to the 2x6 that sits just adjacent to the wall I want to remove. The joists run over top of the wall in question and are fastened to that 2x6 via face nails. I plan on cutting the cieling under the joists and fastening joist hangers to the original 2x6, then fastening the 2x6 to the 2x12. Does this make sense. By the way the wall in question is running parelel to the floor joists. It sits in between two parelel joists 8 inches apart. This space is used for a return duct.

 
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02-23-07, 06:30 AM   #5  
I inherently overbuild things, but zowee.

"I plan on fastening two 2x12's to the 2x6 that sits just adjacent to the wall I want to remove.The joists run over top of the wall in question and are fastened to that 2x6 via face nails. I plan on cutting the cieling under the joists and fastening joist hangers to the original 2x6, then fastening the 2x6 to the 2x12."

Sounds like a plan.

"By the way the wall in question is running parelel to the floor joists. It sits in between two parelel joists 8 inches apart."

Testament to the ceiling load, in that there is little floor deflection. Typical framing would be dbl fj with a pier at center point.

 
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02-23-07, 10:20 AM   #6  
"Testament to the ceiling load, in that there is little floor deflection. Typical framing would be dbl fj with a pier at center point."

Forgive my ignorance. So If I understand correctly, If this wall were load bearing it would sit right smack on top of a double joist? As opposed to between two joists even though there close? There is a wall below this one about 16 inches away running the same direction. I'm sure it's not load bearing as well because the joist above the basement wall runs from the out side wall to and on top of 3 massive wooden beams that measure around 2x14.

 
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02-23-07, 08:22 PM   #7  
Interesting. The rafter ties look like the armature hour and this wall/FJ are an indication of a fast talking framer and a junior inspector.

Make no mistake, the wall is carring the ceiling load. Were you to remove the wall without a temporary support wall, the single 2X that the CJ are end nailed too, would fail.

The ceiling load is being transferred through the 2 FJ to the exterior foundation and the center beam, then through the lolly column to their footings.

 
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02-24-07, 05:46 AM   #8  
Thanks again Snoony,

I'm sure my 2x6 fastened to the two 2x12's will take up the load. The two 2x12's will be sitting on the outside wall and the inside load bearing wall. I guess this is where the 2 fj are transferring the loads, but down below. Here's what my main concern always was: It's roof thrust. I'm thinking that's not what the wall I want to remove is supporting, based on what I've read lately. If that wall was a major tie for the rafters, would there not be another series of joists tagged to the ones there, and continuing on tho the other side of the roof? This is a side split home built in 1965. I'm dealing with the low roof. This is a hip roof with only three sides, the fourth being the wall that is the high side of the side split. The hip that thesse fj's are running from, is the hip on the opposite side of the wall or fourth side. It's the hip thats perpindicular to the rige beam if that makes sense.

By the way, I don't have lolly colums in the basement. The inside middle load bearing wall is sitting right on top of another cinder block load bearing wall in the basement. This cinder block wall is were all the basement ceiling joists or upstairs floor joists run on top of. The middle load bearing wall and basement load bearing wall is perpindicular to the joists. From there joists run to the front wall and to the back wall. The length of the 2x8 joists are about 11 feet from back wall to middle wall, and 14 feet from middle wall to front wall. The back wall is where the wall I wan to remove tee's into. The layout I have in the drawing is identical to the basement.

Thanks again


Last edited by JETMECH727; 02-24-07 at 06:00 AM.
 
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