Air bubbles under tape!


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Old 07-19-09, 08:03 PM
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Air bubbles under tape!

The second coat of mud has been applied to my taped areas and dryed. I just noticed in a couple spots that there are air bubbles under the tape and you can push on them. What can i do to fix it?

skeeter
 
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Old 07-19-09, 08:10 PM
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You can try to bury them with mud but sometimes they will just keep rearing their ugly head. OR cut them out an apply a new piece of tape making sure not to squeeze out all the mud so you get no air bubbles.
 
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Old 07-20-09, 05:08 AM
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If the problem areas are small, a sharp razor blade can cut just enough to lift the tape and apply some mud underneath. Then push it flat and cover.

When you initially install the tape, you have to push hard enough to force the mud into the tape. There should be very little mud left under the tape, especially on butt joints. With the tape saturated in mud and a thin layer underneath, it will stick.

Bud
 
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Old 07-20-09, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by skeeter_ca View Post
The second coat of mud has been applied to my taped areas and dryed. I just noticed in a couple spots that there are air bubbles under the tape and you can push on them. What can i do to fix it?

skeeter
We can send a man to the moon (40 years ago, no less!), but -------this type of question is often mentioned, and I am certain that this happens more often than most people realize. It even happens to pros. I know, I have been called to such places, where I have been asked what can be done about this.

I am going to get ahold of 3M and ask them if they have ever toyed with trying to make an adhesive and applicator for paper tape. Think how quick, easy, and foolproof it be to brush or roll on or ? some tacky, semi-slow drying adhesive, that has grab power, yet able to reposition at first, and eliminate the careful mud coat, where you have to carefully apply it uniformly, not too thick and not too thin. Such a method (glue) would be much faster, and you would be ensured the paper tape is closest to the sheetrock paper so that nobody has problems with noticeable bulges or where the tape has come loose.

Mesh tape has adhesive on it!, but that adhesive is only good for the tape able to hold on the wall just enough so you can lock it on the wall better with mud. The adhesive used for the paper tape would have to be a stronger permanent adhesive. Nothing too rocket science about this thogh, I do not think, as other adhesives that bond paper to paper, work, permanently.

In fact, it would not surprise me if someone said such a thing already exists. But if so, I have not heard of it.
 
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Old 07-20-09, 03:13 PM
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Cut the blister out and mud over it.

ecman1 I have seen self adhesive paper tape. It has holes in it. Not sure why. It sucks as bad as mesh.

Blisters are a common problem when you tape by hand. The problem is when you spread your mud on the wall you either don't put enough on or when you wipe it down it pops up a little bit. You can put a blob of mud on the wall stick a piece of tape on it, don't wipe it down and it will stay forever. Just make sure you have enough under it and DON'T wipe too hard or you will squeeze all the mud out and....blister.
 
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Old 07-22-09, 01:49 PM
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Coops you the man & right as usual! Beer 4U2
 
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Old 07-23-09, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by coops28 View Post
ecman1 I have seen self adhesive paper tape. It has holes in it. Not sure why. It sucks as bad as mesh.
Crossing my fingers 3M takes the idea I e-mailed them about, and runs with it. I think they could make a fortune with this. Turns out they accept outside ideas!! Unlike many other companies! They e-mailed me back in only about 1 hour!

My idea is that the adhesive would be applied by some method of their(3M's) choosing, after researching this. What has to happen, no matter how it is applied, I told them, is once you set the tape, it 'holds', yet you can reposition it, and have time to broadknife it before it permanently sets, under various atmospheric/humidity conditioins. I told them though, that there is one drawback with this method:

The whole current idea with using mud under the tape is that it both fills and adheres the tape at the same time. But if one were to just glue on the tape, and there were voids in the corner, that would not be as good. So I told 3M that the applicator(person) would most likely have to prefill first, and the crucial step would be to make sure the prefill coat comes out flush with the adjoining sheetrock. But I said I believe my idea still is good because prefilling is an easy step without stress, because you can easily guide off the sheetrock. And the glue application also would be non-stressful and not require the skill level, especially for DIY'ers, that setting tape into mud requires. And with the glue method, there should not be the risk of wrinkles or blisters, as there is with the method of setting tape in mud.

Also the applicator(person) would be ensured that the tape would not ever be up to high off the sheetrock paper! I told 3M (in my 2nd e-mail where I went into detail) that in butt joints, this is most important. That if butt joints are not done right, they can be seen.

The glue-down method would put the tape uniformly as close (or closer?) to the sheetrock as mesh tape (which we all know barely sticks - but it has to be that way, otherwise you could not get it to position properly in the corners!) And I told 3M that the problem also with mesh tape is that one cannot get the same crisp joint in the corner as you can with paper tape. The reason is that you usually always wind up with a slightly rounding of the corner, which then can affect how the broadknife, with mud on it, runs along that tape.

I recently did a meshtape job (the sheetrocker put in on, then left me with the dirty work), and it turned out real nice. But I have skill at this, and know all the little subtle tricks, where novices end up having weird things happen that they can't figure out where they went wrong.

But the glue-down method would be almost foolproof as long as they are running the tape down a nicely sheetrocked/prefilled corner. (Other joints would be a real piece of cake.

It actually seems like quite an obvious idea (they thought of it with mesh tape!). Even if you had to dunk a paint brush into some glue - look how fast you could go, without the worry of doing it just right.
 
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Old 07-24-09, 09:15 AM
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How are you going to pull the tape off the role if it has glue on it??
 
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Old 07-24-09, 03:32 PM
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Maybe I read it wrong but I assumed the 'glue' would be put the wall and then the tape applied.
 
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Old 07-24-09, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by coops28 View Post
How are you going to pull the tape off the role if it has glue on it??
It won't be on the tape. You have to be the one to put it on the tape or wall. 3M's choice. The glue has to be a thinner consistency and, not too fast drying.

There is a real art to laying down the perfect bed of mud to set the tape into. It takes real skill to get the mud layed uniform, and to be quick about it at the same time. It's easy to lay on the mud too thick. But if you do, you run more risk of the tape gathering and wrinkling and making a not-so-square corner.

As a hobby, I love to inspect professionals taping and mudding work. I check to see if outside corners dish in along the wall, and if there are butt joint bulges, and I feel in the corners to see if I can feel the tape/tape stick out some, and if the corner joints along ceiling-wall are straight and not wavy and same for vertical inside corners, and if I can see where the second row of sheetrock is, to name a few things.
 
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Old 07-25-09, 08:08 AM
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ok, now I am completley lost. You put glue on then the tape? Sounds a lot like what you do now only the glue is mud.
Sorry ecman1 but that would slow things down not speed them up. Sure it might be easier for the diyer or the novice but those aren't the people who buy the bulk of the product out there. Its the professional who buys it. The professional who knows how to tape and finish. The professional who has all of the tools and has perfected an artform over many years.

3m already makes a spray on contact glue. Just use that. It would cost 2 times more and is extremely messy and a pain to clean up.

I'm all for new ideas and thinking but I just don't get it.
 
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Old 07-26-09, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by coops28 View Post
ok, now I am completley lost. You put glue on then the tape? Sounds a lot like what you do now only the glue is mud.
Exactly. And that is the problem. How many people, if you hand them a mudknife, can put that mud under the tape correctly? This is a highly skilled process, that takes people time to master, or they screw it up. Contractors have screwed it up! I know. I have been called to even businesses where the owner points to tape coming off and asks what can be done, and for how much.

My idea is near brainless and skilless.

And there are more handymen and DIY'ers out there doing one-room additions, basements, a wall or two, or a room overlay - than I think you think there are. Home centers thrive on the business from DIY'ers. I really think there is a market. This is the most difficult step in mudding.

DIY'ers may get together with the brother-in-law who thinks he can do anything, and they entice him over with beers and food and stuff.

Spray glue is not good enough, and instantly sets (you would have no time to reposition the tape correctly in the corner) and does not hold well over time. I have used many many cans of spray adhesive for temporary glue jobs over the years for various things.

What is needed is a liquous paper glue, that can be smeared on in seconds. You don't think that be a far easier way?, than going along both sides of a corner, with mud, and uniformly applying the mud, with just the right amount so as to not too much, not too little, and going too slow and it will start drying on the person before the tape ever gets pushed into the mud?
 
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Old 07-27-09, 07:35 AM
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You can go for it. More power to you. But I stick by my opinion. There are far more professionals shopping at home depot in the drywall section than amatuers.

I can tell that you are not a full time drywall guy. I am. How many room additions have you taped by hand? I haven't done one. Thats why they make a banjo. It puts out the exact amount of mud under the tape all day long. You don't even have to think about it. Mud is cheap and easy to use if you have knowledge and experiance. Sure a diy'er might get some blisters under tape now and then but its easy to fix.
 
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Old 07-27-09, 05:20 PM
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I only do it by hand, since I am not at this full time. But I have done a lot by hand, and am quite good at it. Usually I am not dealing with texture, and only gets paint, so I do all I can to hardly not have to sand. Very little. Without texture, it has to be good.

Yes, more pros than amateurs doing it. But I still think plenty of market out there for an easier approach.

I'm not investing any more into the idea than just the idea. If they want to run with it, they do. If not, so be it. I may conduct my own experiment with paper glue sometime.
 
 

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