I am finishing my basement, I have the drywall up and the corner bead done. At this point I'm just looking for someone to mud and tape for me. So... I've called a couple of contractors to come out and give me a bid.

Details:

-St. Louis, Missouri (St. Louis County)
-Family room, Office, Bathroom, Playroom, landing and hallway
-Approx 1000 sq ft, plus soffits covering the hvac supply & return
-No ceiling work
-Horizontal sheets of drywall, minimized amount of butt joints as much as possible (but there are some - 8 or 9).
-Used full sheets around doors (no patchwork small pieces, etc).

1. First guy I called just asked a bunch of information over the phone and gave me a loose bid as follows: 3 days @ $800/day for a 2 man crew, plus $200 materials = ~$2600

2. Second guy I called came out and looked at the basement, measured everything, and gave me a bid of $750 including materials.

Does either sound right? First one high, second one low? I of course like the price on the second one, but I don't want to end up having to pay someone to come out and fix things if the guy doesn't do it right, or do a good job. I know price isn't always a good indication of quality of work... but, well... you know.

Thoughts anyone?

 

Prices vary by location, but my last job I got bids of $12 a sheet to hang it and $12 a sheet to tape it, 3 coats and these were 4x12' sheets of 5/8". Allowing for the fact that I'm in the sticks, I would guess $20 or $25 per sheet to tape, but you would pay for scrap as well. If you say 30 sheets at $25 per sheet, there is your low bidder. 1,000 sq ft is 2 hours work for one person for the first coat. He will go around that room faster than you can believe. What the other guy is going to do with two guys for three days, I don't know. Your low bidder may finish the second day or may have to come back a third day, but these are 2 hour days.

I would like to see the guys work, but I would probably be comfortable with the low bidder. If you can be there the day he starts, watch for the tools he brings out. If they look like he just bought them, send him packing.

PS I'm not a pro at this, just a retired small general contractor who has had to do a little of everything.

Bud

 

The wide price spread is one of the reason to ask for 3 bids to get an idea of the range.

The higher price is just a knee-jerk complementry bis seen the the site and your hanging was not seen. - I would automatically reject it, but a 3rd bid might give a better picture.

Does the low "bidder" have any references or referrals? - It is always wise to check out a low bidder for sanity purposes.

Dick

 

I have two more guys coming out tomorrow to give bids, will make a decision after that.

I know the first was site unseen, but that still is a huge range. I too don't know what a two person crew would be doing for 3 full days... especially at $800/day.

The low price guy has a gallery on his website of 10 past jobs, and has 80 reviews on the ServiceMagic website, with an average rating of 4.5 out of 5 stars.

I know construction, and am doing and have done the rest of the basement myself...I just don't want to do the mud and tape, lol. So it isn't like I'm going into this blind, not knowing anything about it. The low price guy was knowledgeable, and responded to questions and different area's of the basement as I would have expected. He didn't say anything alarming that made me think he didn't know what he was talking about.

I guess this post is more just a sanity check, lol. I'll let you guys know how the bids from tomorrow come back.

 

Not sure what the going price is in your area, but .30 SF would be a medium range standard price in my area for finishing. ($300 for your 1000 sf of wall)

But since it's a small job, the price would likely need to be higher since any job that causes you to spend 2 hours here, then go somewhere else the rest of the day is going to cost extra in man hours.

But the "3 days" estimate is likely way out of line. There is no way they would be there ALL DAY for 3 days. So they are trying to take you for a ride. It would probably also be a waste of time to have more than 1 guy working on such a small job, unless he's bringing a 2nd guy to sand for him or mix his mud.

I wouldn't have a problem going with your lower bid, esp with the recommendations you found. You ought to see if the guy would prime the walls for you also!

 

I'd be curious what the first guy would have to say if you asked why he needed so many more man-hours for the job than the rest of the bids you had received

 

Ok so 3rd contractor came out this morning already, one more to go this afternoon.

The one that came out this morning quoted me $1600. He said that the bid did not include mesh taping the corners, but said that I could pre-install the mesh tape if I wanted to so that it was ready to go when he got here. He said it would be a 2 person crew (him and someone else on his crew) and would take 3-5 days total (that includes a couple of drying days in between, so really 3 days of work), and that it would probably be about 4 hours of work each of those 3 days.

This one measured both the sq ft of the walls, and the sq ft of the soffits and his numbers jived with mine. The "low bid guy" didn't measure the soffits separately (I will confirm with him that his bid includes them, and ask him to spell that out in the statement of work as he did everything else).

To speak to XSleeper & Buds questions on number of boards, and sq footage pricings:

When I said 1000 sq ft yesterday, I meant finished floor sq footage. I calculated the sq ft of actual wall to be 2300, and I count 58 full sheets of drywall (including soffits in both).

The "low price guy" would be $.33/sq ft of wall, or $13/board.

The guy today would be: $.70/sq ft of wall, or $27.50/board.

From what a couple of yo have said, it would seem that the "low price guy" might actually have "normal" looking numbers, and the others might just be "higher bids"....???

Mitch, the guy that did the $2600 quote was more of a general handyman place I think and admitted that I would be better off finding a drywall contractor that did this stuff everyday... but he went ahead and gave me a price anyway.

Any additional thoughts? heh.

 

OK, I thought 1,000 sq ft of drywall was a small basement space .

I don't like the idea that this guy wants you to install the corner tape, AND I don't like mesh, but that is a personal preference. I have used mesh with paperless drywall to be consistant in eliminating the paper, mold food. But I have never seen a pro that would want an amateur to do his prep work.

I still like the low bid and I still think one person can do the job, although 3 to 4 hours would be a better guess.

The plus is, your work must have been ok or he should have said something.

Let's see what the next guy says.

 

I'd tell the guy no mesh tape - the paper is actually stronger

 

In regards to the mesh tape, we are talking about the corners. I had assumed (I know, I know assuming ANYTHING is a mistake), anyway I had assumed paper on the seams and mesh on the corners. You guys prefer paper on both the corners and the seams?

 

IMO paper tape is always better than mesh. I couldn't imagine using mesh tape in the corners, the paper tape has a crease that makes folding a breeze and I would assume it would be easier to get a nice clean straight line in the corner with paper tape than it would be with mesh.

I've only used mesh once in a corner, it was a repaint with more damage than I realized. I ran out of paper tape and the customer had a roll of mesh tape so I finished up with it. Wasn't great but it beat making a trip to town to get more paper tape

I did see Mike Holmes [on tv] use mesh tape in a corner
If you use mesh tape, it's best to go over it with a setting compound like durabond.

 

marksr,

Just so I'm sure we're both talking about the same thing...

The outside corners all have metal corner bead installed on them already. When I was asking about taping the corners and using mesh vs paper, I was talking about having mesh or paper embedded in the mud on the corner over the edge metal bead and the drywall to strengthen the transition and the corner.

???

 

Taping the corner bead like you are describing is a good idea but yes, use paper tape

The application does not matter, paper tape beats mesh every time

 

So.. the 4th guy was a "no show/no call" on the coming out for an estimate.

I heard back from the "low bid guy", he is going to amend the statement of work to explicitly state that the soffits are also included. I asked him to detail the statement of work as much as possible to protect both of us from any misunderstanding.

Because his price is already so reasonable I also asked about him just going ahead and priming all the walls for me, lol. I told him I would provide the primer (I want to make sure a quality primer is used). He said that if I provide the primer they would apply it for me: $150 sprayed, or $200 rolled.. whichever I prefer.

I think as long as everything looks good when he sends the new bid I will likely just go ahead and schedule the work with him.

 

There are reasonable and skilled handymen/women out there. If you can find and establish a relationship with one, it is a real asset. The need for lawyerproof contracts will fall by the wayside and trust and quality workmanship will take its place and that is a great feeling.

Good luck
Bud

 

Work is scheduled to start 9/13. I will take some before and after pics and let you guys know how it goes and how it turns out.

Thanks for all of the opinions!

Irish

 

If they are going to spray it, be sure the floor is clean, as in vacuumed! Someone who isn't careful can kick up debris into the wet paint next to the floor otherwise. And there's usually a lot of drywall dust under the bottom edge of the drywall that only comes out when an air sprayer blows it out!

 

"If they are going to spray it, be sure the floor is clean"

Worth repeating!!!

You need to do more than just sweep. I usually use a duster to pull the dust out from under the drywall. The method in which you spray can also help to minimize any blow back. Any debris that gets blown into the primer/paint will have to be sanded off when dry

Another point is to make sure the sanding dust is removed from the wall prior to applying the primer. Paint will not stick to dust!

 

Well guys, seems like this instance was a case of "you get what you pay for".

The contractor showed up when scheduled, and worked without for 5 days (one man crew - though the first day was going to be two, the other guy got caught up on another job).

The walls he did a mostly decent job on... though there are some spots where screw heads were not filled in enough, or were not sanded down.

My bigger problems with the work he did was that on a fair amount of outside corners he didn't flair them out enough, and/or he didn't do a great job of sanding.

My biggest problem however are the inside corners. I would say 90% of them were done very sloppy. I was home the first 4 days while he worked, but not his last day (when he did all the primer). I assumed, I guess now improperly, that he was going to come back the 5th day and do a bunch of cleanup and detail work on the corners and finish up sanding, then do the primer. Turns out on the 5th day all he did was primer.

I was eager to get some paint on the walls, and thought I'd be able to deal with the minor imperfections. I started painting the soffits... and just could not keep going there are so my flaws.

So, now I'm at a spot where I am going to have to find someone to come in and fix the screwed up parts. My wife thinks I need to call this guy back and have him come out and fix everything. My confidence being where it is... I'd just as soon find someone else to come out and fix it. Since the guy that did the first part did so at such a reasonable price, I guess I am still coming out ahead even if I have to pay someone to spend a day here doing some "fixing".

bleh.

 

Drywall work isn't all that difficult, you might consider trying to fix it up yourself. Unless there is something major wrong - a little joint compound here and there and some sanding should fix it.

 

Given that everything is already primed.... would sanding it down and re-priming be ok?

My biggest concern is really the inside corners. Most of them look like crap.. but I'm worried about sanding them down and popping the paper.

Any thoughts on how to do that properly?

Thanks,
Irish

 

Latex wall paint/primer doesn't sand well. It would be better to apply a thin coat of j/c and then sand it when dry. As long as the corners are straight, adding j/c, sanding and repriming should fix them. You want to use a sanding block or sanding pole [something that holds the sandpaper flat] when you do the sanding. Often just holding the sandpaper in your hand will result in a wavy surface.

If you start to sand into the paper, stop and add more j/c.

 

That would be my thought too. One trick that you can use on inside corners is to just coat one side at a time. Use a 6" knife to put on a nice smooth coat of joint compound on one side of the corner. Let it dry. Knock off any globs on the inside corner with your knife. Then coat the other side and let it dry. Give it a sanding and look for any imperfections that need a final skim coat. One final sanding and you're ready for primer and paint.

You will never sand into the paper if the right amount of mud is covering it.

Sorry to hear your contractor wasn't very skilled or at least wasn't a conscientious worker. Sometimes they don't look over their work with a light or don't care.

 

Some people think drywall mudding can't be that hard to do. One case in point, of yours, is about how he did not flair out the outside corners enough. Some don't think ahead. In fact, if the corner bead itself sticks out too far, the mudder HAS to flair it, and flair it way back - otherwise it will be noticable at the baseboard trim.

When I see mudwork done, I specifically look to see if I see bulges, waves in corners, and not flaired out enough as you say. Some must not realize that especially ready mix shrinks. You can think it looked good and flush when you applied it, then when it is dry, it need more. That is why like on outside corners, (with hopefully the corner bead not sticking out TOO far),that the mud has to be applied about 3 times in wider and wider applications for each coat.

It is imperative when sanding to use sandpaper or meshscreen attached to a solid backer, so that you can shape it perfectly flat. I do like individual rooms, and I like to use those sanding sponges. I get right up and close that way, with what I am sanding/featheredging. And when sanding you do not want to sand the paper to create "the fuzzies". It is hard to hide that, even with paint! Sometimes it can be easier (and less dusty) to thin the mud a little and feathercoat the edge of the pre-existing mud, rather than have to hardly sand.

Doing butt joints is another art. Some people apply the mud wide enough all right, but use a willy-nilly method of just skimming it all on wide at once and then have to do a lot of sanding to sort of try to shape it flat. I find an easier clean way is to first mud down the tape with as thin a coat as possible, just to BARELY cover the tape, with about an 8 or 10 inch knife. Then after that dries, use a wide knife again and take off where you left off, on both the right and left side. That way you do not keep building up over the tape joint, as you do not want any more mud to stick out than you have to, to have the tape coated, and that's it.

If you want, I have found that for any final coating of wide joints, that if you then diagonally coat your wide band, that it will create an almost ridgeless mud appliction! If you mud by hand, and have never tried that, I recommended anyone give that a try once.

 

I put some pictures up on Flickr. Some of this is uglier than I think I will be able to fix myself. I am not a drywall guy.

Most of these pictures are pretty close up, which makes them even uglier... you'll get the idea.

Basement Mud and Tape - a set on Flickr

Not acceptable. I am not looking for perfection, but something within reason would be nice.

Thoughts?

 

Holy cow! I'd be knocking that guy's door down asking for my money back. Was this the boss or an employee/subcontractor doing the work?

 

This was the boss.

Like I said, the are really close up pictures... so the amplify the "ugliness". But you know, some of these are in the landing/foyer of the basement, some are in the shower, some are soffits, etc... and I mean, really... come on.

I honestly think he got in a hurry and skipped a few steps in some of the rooms (additional coats, sanding well, etc). But how do you leave a job looking like some of those corners look.

Besides the things I took pictures of, the main soffit has screw heads that aren't totally covered (small dimples). I can spackle and fix stuff like that. but really, dissapointed. I paid him $900 to mud and tape, and then prime what came out to be 2600sq ft of wall. I know it was low price, but really... ?

Like I said before, I don't know that I want him to come back and "fix". At this point I'm thinking of having someone else come out.

 

Well... all I can say is that drywall is "supposed" to look perfect, even when you shine a light on it. The only place where finishers sometimes will not spend extra time is in a small closet that will hardly ever be seen! And even then, no contractor would allow even a closet to look that bad!

Your first step would be to call the guy back and give him a chance to correct his mistakes- give him the benefit of the doubt and let him know you expected better work for that price. Provide him with a light if needed so that he knows what you expect.

 

Zeb Zank from Green Acres would have done better.

Maybe the guy is married to that woman on the current tv ad where she lets in a raccoon, thinking it is her kitty (she can't see good, of course). Maybe neither can he.

 

I called and left a voicemail today, and also sent an email. He usually responds to emails at night... so I'll let you guys know what he says.

If there were a few small things, and a corner or two that needed work, I would take care of it myself... but there is way more stuff than that, and I would be down there a month trying to get it to look right.

So, I'm going to give this guy a shot to make things right, and if he doesn't have time or hedges at all... I will ask for some of the money back so I can pay someone else to come out and fix it.

Anyway, I'll let you guys know if I hear from him, or how this turns out.

 

I don't think I EVER taped as poor as this guy, and I'm not a taper! I say call him back. If he won't fix it, tell him you will give him a very bad review on Service Magic.

 

Yeah I don't see how he got 4.5 out of 5 with 80 reviews.

He must have paid 80 people to say nice things about his work. LOL

 

Interestingly, I received 2 emails last night from him.. both for bids on additional work that we had talked about.

However, no response to the email and phone call regarding the drywall work.

Again, I think we can all agree that the work should have been better to begin with. BUT, considering the possibility of additional work... don't you think he would have made sure the first work he did was perfect?

 

He either doesn't realize what shape he left the walls in or doesn't know it's supposed to look better. I'd get him to come back and look at the finishing with good lighting. His response would help determine if I'd consider using him for more work

 

Yeah, I'm with Tolyn - I'm no pro but I've never done that bad a job taping

 

Well I'm a pro and thats some ugly ****!!!
I would ask for all the money back, your going to need it to pay someone to fix that. The price he charged was fare for the amount of
work there. That what I would have gotten here in NJ. But he didn't
give you what you payed for
Dave

 

How did this all turn out? I've never drywalled in my life but I know how to spell my own name and I can tie my shoelaces and by God I'm sure I'd not do that bad a job right now on my first shot.

I think the quote in your first post BTW was outrageously high. A friend of mine had his basement walls done and mudded recently and I am hesitant to recall a number but it was much, much less and he said it looked good.

I hear mudding is a bit of an art but a guy who's done a room surely would have learned how to do better than those pics. Therefore I think that was his first time drywalling or he was on medication or in a terrible hurry.