Dividing previously finished basement room
#1
04-11-13, 12:13 PM
Dividing previously finished basement room
Hello all,
We recently moved in to a house with a finished basement, consisting of 2 large rooms that have wood paneling for the walls and tiled on the floor. We would like to divide one of those rooms into 2 smaller guest rooms. I have a few questions and was hoping some could be answered here. The home is located in NY State.
1. Regarding the new walls, is it necessary to cut away at the old tile before framing, or is there a recommended way to drill through the tile and into the subfloor? Without actually tearing up existing floor, is it safe to assume that under the tile would be concrete?
2. I've been reading conflicting recommendations regarding the bottom plate. Assuming it will be put over the tile, is the best approach still to use pressure treated wood, or should I lay down some sort of barrier first, or both?
3. We currently have some support posts in the middle of the room, which are also paneled. Is there any reason to not incorporate these into the new walls?
4. As nothing is load-bearing, is 2x3" enough or is 2x4 still needed?
5. Do I have to cut into the existing ceiling to secure above or could I go through the sheetrock?
I'm sure I'll have more follow-up questions, but any help you could give me for now would be much appreciated.
We recently moved in to a house with a finished basement, consisting of 2 large rooms that have wood paneling for the walls and tiled on the floor. We would like to divide one of those rooms into 2 smaller guest rooms. I have a few questions and was hoping some could be answered here. The home is located in NY State.
1. Regarding the new walls, is it necessary to cut away at the old tile before framing, or is there a recommended way to drill through the tile and into the subfloor? Without actually tearing up existing floor, is it safe to assume that under the tile would be concrete?
2. I've been reading conflicting recommendations regarding the bottom plate. Assuming it will be put over the tile, is the best approach still to use pressure treated wood, or should I lay down some sort of barrier first, or both?
3. We currently have some support posts in the middle of the room, which are also paneled. Is there any reason to not incorporate these into the new walls?
4. As nothing is load-bearing, is 2x3" enough or is 2x4 still needed?
5. Do I have to cut into the existing ceiling to secure above or could I go through the sheetrock?
I'm sure I'll have more follow-up questions, but any help you could give me for now would be much appreciated.
#2
04-11-13, 12:44 PM
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Welcome to the forums.
No pro but here are my thoughts:
1. I would, tile is not meant to be weight-bearing.
2. I would use PT with a sill gasket underneath.
3. Nope, go right ahead.
4. 2x4 provides more stability and room to run wiring and hang outlet boxes.
5. I would remove the drywall.
Additionally, do you have room for the closets required to call these bedrooms and the egress requirements met as well?
No pro but here are my thoughts:
1. I would, tile is not meant to be weight-bearing.
2. I would use PT with a sill gasket underneath.
3. Nope, go right ahead.
4. 2x4 provides more stability and room to run wiring and hang outlet boxes.
5. I would remove the drywall.
Additionally, do you have room for the closets required to call these bedrooms and the egress requirements met as well?
#3
04-11-13, 04:18 PM
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If the "guest rooms" are for sleeping, be sure to add the fire-code required egress for their safety; pp. 17. You will need a permit for the alteration and additional windows for natural light and ventilation, pp, 15;http://www.dos.ny.gov/DCEA/pdf/9E%20WB%20combined.pdf
Gary
PS. "Great minds...", lol.... Mitch, I found this interesting; Sleeping Room Definition
Gary
PS. "Great minds...", lol.... Mitch, I found this interesting; Sleeping Room Definition
#4
04-18-13, 10:52 AM
Thanks for the reply. My concern with cutting through the tile is that I'm creating a ditch where it's possible for water to collect. I know I'll have PT and gasket, but the idea of it being possible bothers me a bit.
Thanks for the window info as well. My existing window may be OK, I'm checking into it.
More to follow...
Thanks for the window info as well. My existing window may be OK, I'm checking into it.
More to follow...
#5
04-18-13, 09:32 PM
My existing window may be OK, I'm checking into it.
I would lay a strip of 1/2" polyiso on the floor with a PT 2x4 on that, and drill through to secure them with Tapcons. You can secure the top plate to the joists through the existing gyp board - just double-check for plumb and use screws long enough to run about 1-1/2" into the framing. So 3-1/2" deck screws or similar hardened screws for that.
Aren't you going to have to open the walls and ceiling to install lighting and switch runs, plus any needed receptacles in the the existing walls?
#6
04-19-13, 03:29 AM
The new walls won't be load bearing. I would not cut the tile. I would use PL400 or equivalent for the bottom plate. Tile will shatter with powder actuated fasteners. Tapcons would be a good choice.
#7
04-19-13, 06:02 AM
Group Moderator
I would also not cut the sheetrock ceiling. Just attach the top plate with nails shot at angles, or toggles/anchors. You could also add a little PL400 if you want.
If you have a textured ceiling, when finishing the new sheetrock just flat tape any gap where the new meets the ceiling. Then run a bead of caulk at the corner so there is no crack after you paint. No ceiling repair needed.
If you have a textured ceiling, when finishing the new sheetrock just flat tape any gap where the new meets the ceiling. Then run a bead of caulk at the corner so there is no crack after you paint. No ceiling repair needed.
#8
04-19-13, 07:37 AM
Chandler - Are you recommending using PL400 alone or in conjunction with Tapcon?
Tolyn - Why do you say to nail the top plate at angles?
Nashkat - Does the door to the room not count as an egress route?
Thanks again, you guys are very helpful.
Tolyn - Why do you say to nail the top plate at angles?
Nashkat - Does the door to the room not count as an egress route?
Thanks again, you guys are very helpful.
#9
04-19-13, 08:49 AM
Group Moderator
Tolyn - Why do you say to nail the top plate at angles?
Since Nash isn't here, No, the door does not count. There needs to be a egress window.
#11
04-19-13, 09:31 PM
Does the door to the room not count as an egress route?
Each room may need the second means of egress.
#12
04-21-13, 07:00 AM
Nashkat: I realize that a second means of egress is needed, that's why I said i was checking to see if the existing window down there was sufficient (unfortunately, while large enough, it starts too high). My understanding of what you wrote was that 2 points of egress were needed in addition to the door, as I took it for granted that the door counts as one.
You also mentioned laying a strip of polyiso on the floor. Isn't that insulation? I've read that it shouldn't be used in basements below grade, but I really don't know enough about it to make an informed decision.
Regarding the electrical work, I currently have fluorescent lighting fixtures in the room, 2 controlled by one switch and 5 by a second. Of course not in the right layout for the new room, but my electrician says he can rewire so the switches control the lights correctly for the new layout. I'll also have him run the wiring for the outlets. Not in the mood to risk it myself.
Regarding the tapcons, should I try to line them up with the grout, or just go through the tiles?
Thanks again
You also mentioned laying a strip of polyiso on the floor. Isn't that insulation? I've read that it shouldn't be used in basements below grade, but I really don't know enough about it to make an informed decision.
Regarding the electrical work, I currently have fluorescent lighting fixtures in the room, 2 controlled by one switch and 5 by a second. Of course not in the right layout for the new room, but my electrician says he can rewire so the switches control the lights correctly for the new layout. I'll also have him run the wiring for the outlets. Not in the mood to risk it myself.
Regarding the tapcons, should I try to line them up with the grout, or just go through the tiles?
Thanks again
#13
04-21-13, 09:38 PM
I suggested the XPS as a vibration and moisture break between the floor and the sill plate, not as insulation. You can use it or not, no biggie either way. The advice on insulating with it against a foundation wall is that you don't need it below the frost line, not below grade.
I regret that I wasn't as clear as I would have liked about the egress. Will adding steps leading to the windows be enough to have them qualify?
You can drill for the Tapcons anywhere you like, so long as you're using ones long enough to get you about 2" into the slab.
I regret that I wasn't as clear as I would have liked about the egress. Will adding steps leading to the windows be enough to have them qualify?
You can drill for the Tapcons anywhere you like, so long as you're using ones long enough to get you about 2" into the slab.
#14
04-22-13, 02:39 PM
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"You also mentioned laying a strip of polyiso on the floor. Isn't that insulation? I've read that it shouldn't be used in basements below grade, but I really don't know enough about it to make an informed decision." Foamboard (XPS) should be used under a p.t. bottom plate as a thermal/capillary break to the slab/earth below, polyiso absorbs 7 times more water/moisture than XPS. Fig. 4, click the "here"; https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...4EyM707m0gPdXQ
Foamboard on the wall will save you heating dollars; http://www.quadlock.com/technical_li...Insulation.pdf
http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...lation-systems
Gary
Foamboard on the wall will save you heating dollars; http://www.quadlock.com/technical_li...Insulation.pdf
http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...lation-systems
Gary
#15
03-22-15, 01:01 PM
I know it's been a while since this thread had been active, but life got in the way of actually doing the project!
I was wondering if anyone has any input as far as using metal framing instead of wood. Is either more difficult even it comes to sizing? Low ceiling height means I'll have to cut anyway. If I want to make built in shelving along one of the walls (toys and games) would that have any bearing?
Thanks!
I was wondering if anyone has any input as far as using metal framing instead of wood. Is either more difficult even it comes to sizing? Low ceiling height means I'll have to cut anyway. If I want to make built in shelving along one of the walls (toys and games) would that have any bearing?
Thanks!
metal requires tricks of the trade that wood doesn't. Wood is easier.
